Purim damage - I hate drunk teenagers!

amother

Sienna

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 7:25 am

Agree, it trickled down from the top. Let the yeshivos make it clear, they are not sending teens out to collect and that they will be closed purim, so teens should be at home.

Right now it's a free for all and I don't buy the excuse it's because these boys are in pain. Teens take advantage period.The adults need to take back control and set the stage.

Ema of 5

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 7:31 am

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

I have no issue with boys collecting for their yeshivos, I have an issue with how it happens. It should be made clear that they want the boys to remain sober, and there will be consequences if they hear or see otherwise

amother

Sienna

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 7:56 am

There was a tragedy one year in Baltimore and ever since then the main yeshiva put a stop to collecting on purim itself. Instead the boys go around a week or two prior to purim. No drinking and no crazy drivers (even if not the boys themselves, other drivers may be drinking on purim). It happened years ago, but nobody ever questions the need for this policy.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 8:38 am

Such a pet peeve of mine.
The drunk yeshiva boys weave in and out of the cars here in town. And they jump suddenly in front of cars while laughing and laughing. The whole lot. Dozens.
When I say something, sometimes calmly, sometimes yelling, they mock me and station themselves in front of my car not moving. Their buddies laugh and laugh.
Dangerous, disgusting and stupid.

amother

Mauve

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 8:43 am

I agree that it should come from rebbes, rabanim, etc. But I can't imagine that after all these years they haven't heard it before. Ok so if they don't want to hear it. Then we can take charge and create a safe environment for them. I mean I do a lot of things I shouldn't have to do. But if I don't do them they won't get done.

So I can moan about all the insufferable things in the world. Or I can help the kids that need my help.

keym

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:02 am

Here's my two cents.
I'm a mother of many boys just under bar mitzvah, so I've been talking about this a lot with friends and relatives.
It's very easy to criticize everyone.
But this is in reality no different than any other chinuch issue involved in raising teen boys. And the solution is communication from the getgo.
I have a sister in law who has a very realistic parenting approach, with 3 teenage boys. Her shita is they will drink when they go collecting. Fact. Now let's make it safe. She collaborated with her sons yeshiva, coordinated really responsible drivers, arranged phones.
And she made a deal with her boys. They have to be by the family seudah by 5. Anyone who comes able to speak properly (meaning no more than 2 glasses of wine) gets $200 for their yeshiva. Anyone who calls her and asks to be picked up because they don't feel well gets $150. And friends of her boys get money also for calling her.
She said so many boy's mother's have their heads in the sand. And the boys are scared to call and ask to be picked up because they are afraid of being punished, so they black out in a random strangers house.
Whatever, it's little things. But it's all about communication.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:15 am

keym wrote:

Sorry, I think she has her head in the sand.

keym

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:26 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

Sorry, I think she has her head in the sand.

Ok. You're entitled to your opinion.
I'm not sure why.
She knows the boys will drink. She knows she can't physically tie them down. So she does the next best thing. Bribes them to be as responsible as possible.
It's no different than any other teen behavior. A mother who knows there's a 98% chance her kid is engaging in s-xual behavior, should at least teach responsibility and encourage condoms.
Same here. At least encourage and bribe reasonably responsible drinking. Just a few glasses and call someone to pick you up, no judgement and criticism.

amother

Mauve

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:29 am

keym wrote:

It sounds good to me. We can all tsk tsk as much as we want. It's that kind of criticism that has gotten is NOWHERE so far...

Good for her for trying to come up with a reasonable solution. And thank you for sharing this idea (mother of all boys here)

amother

Tan

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 12:03 pm

DH manages a facility that has a family Purim seuda. Some furnishings were broken. He was paskened it's too bad, a shikur isn't halachacly responsible to pay. They can pay out of mentchlichkeit, but not as an obligation.

So I guess the shilchun aruch agrees, a shikur is a shikur. He will damage stuff and yet can't be held accountable.

pmom

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 12:29 pm

I just want to point out. I didn't finish reading the full thread, but it seems that we are being anti-Semitic here. someone mentioned that she grew up secular and they didn't damage other ppl's property when drunk...
I'm surprised you don't know what happens when ppl get drunk...
It sounds extreme cause it's a lot in one day and you see it wherever you go, but when non-jews get drunk they also do embarrassing things and damage other's property.
I do believe we need to supervise our kids more, just pointing out that not only Jewish kids do crazy things when drunk.
We get upset when non-jews say anti-semitic comments, let's be careful that we should not be anti semites ourselves.
Hope you all had a wonderful purim!

amother

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 1:21 pm

pmom wrote:

I wrote that. And I wrote that I didn't do damage. I personally. I had a slight alcohol problem as a student. But it only made me suicidal and did not cause damage to others.
Non-Jews of course cause can and do cause damage when drunk. The point is, frum Jews should behave recognizably better than some non-Jew. Always. Saying, well, they do damage and embarassing things as well doesn't quite cut it. We are supposed to conduct ourselves better, not just as bad.
If I knew that a non-Jew had jumped on my car, I would have been a lot less annoyed. Of them I don't expect anything better. I would have grumbled about bloody antisemitic critters and shrugged it off. Maybe have been grateful that it wasn't worse. However, I live in a completely Jewish yishuv. So I can't blame it on g0yim. There aren't any around. And that a Jew willfully damages my property hurts me.

I also think that when people are drunk, their true desires come out. Alcohol removes inhibitations. Someone who secretly wants to flirt or harrass or attack people or destroy things will restrain him/herself when sober. But when drunk, it comes all out.

amother

Mauve

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 1:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Stop. Date rape was not my true desire and vandalism is not the true desire of a you g Jewish boy. If their true desires come out when drunk and they are Jewish then it's dveikut to HKBH. A yids true desire is closeness to HKBH.

I once heard that shaedim wait around to posses the bodies of people who are blackout drunk. This makes sense to me.

Your car was damaged it was done most likely by a Jew. Its sucks. I'm sorry. But you cannot judge a drink person. And if you want change then go and help facilitate it.