Corona virus at Maimonides hospital

cnc

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 10:43 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I am a nurse at a unit in Maimonides.

My parents struggle with long term health issues and over the years I have taken them to various hospitals across the city. I find the care they received was dependent on what was going on for his nurses and drs at that particular time. Its the same for my Maimonides unit. If the stars align so that you are a patient at a time when the unit is relatively quiet than you may not have to wait and the staff has the time to go out of their way to give you extra TLC. However if you arrive when all rooms are full and there were just 3 emergencies then you may feel slighted but the nurses will point you in the direction of the ice machine and bring you your tylenol 20 minutes late because they are rushing to stop someones hemorrhage or stabilize someone having a seizure. As far as staffing, my experience as a nurse and based on my RN friends working in hospitals across the city's reports, it is similar all over. If three people call out sick, the unit will be short staffed. Anywhere. My experience as employee RN and patient has been that magnet hospitals like Mount Sinai main campus and wealthier places like Sloan Kettering do tend to have newer equipment and better quality supplies but again, patient experience will vary by the circumstances per shift.

Regarding the hatzla voice note which I understood to mean that Maimo will ventilate all pts regardless of age or comorbidities and will require nurses to relax PPE so thst they can round on patients every hour (I dont know how to share the audio here… can someone help with that?)
Please put yourselves in the shoes of the nurse and her family. My children are proud of the work I do and they know that I am willing to give my all to my patients at work as well as those that ring my bell or call during supper for medical advice, however nurse or Drs are NOT required to put their lives in danger. Nor should they. I will copy and paste an article that was written during the Ebola crisis regarding this. To think that Hatzala or any patient would feel so entitled that they feel their provider should wear less than safe PPE ( Personal protective equipment like masks, gloves, eye protection etc) is horrifying. I dont want my elderly mom or dad or any sick family member to be alone in the hospital. But these are not regular times. This is a crisis situation and it was determined that barring visitors would go a long way to mitigating this outbreak. Can any decent individual, let alone a Frum jew demand that someone put their life on the line by "relaxing PPE requirements (per hatzala voicenote)"?! That is just not OK and I would love to hear a hatzala voice note rescinding that demand. They can demand more staffing if possible so that nurse to patient ratio is better. But that hasnt been done even during no crisis mode. Hospital administrators and managers sit in their ivory towers pushing paper and making policy. I have yet to see managers donning PPE and entering my covid patients rooms. Though they sometimes visit staff at the station with their N95 on. So please Hatzala… dont call my boss and pressure them to put me in a situation where my children may be the next tragic headline because their mom didnt make it because she was forced to go into your highly infectious family members room without adequate protection.

Ebola article:
Below are the words of Aaron Mishler, a nurse, former Army Medic, and Ebola responder in West Africa in 2014-2015.
These are the most important words I’ve read in a long time.
These are the same words we used as a team, every SINGLE time we entered the Ebola Treatment Unit:
“Who is the most important person in the ETU?”
“I am.”
Thank you, Aaron, for using your voice.
* * *
I was asked to repost this with the news of 13 Italian doctors dying from COVID-19. If you do not have proper PPE, do not go in. No matter what.
This post is for my healthcare workers, docs, surgeons, Nurses, aids, and EMS, and all staff.
There is no emergency in a pandemic.
You as a healthcare worker are a force multiplier. Your training and experience is invaluable moving into this crisis. So, you’re going to be faced with some very difficult moments. You’re going to have to put your needs first.
I’m speaking specifically about PPE and your safety.
If you’re an ICU nurse, or an ICU doc, and you become infected, not only are you out of the game for potentially weeks (or killed). But your replacements could be people without your expertise. Your remaining co-workers are short staffed now, more likely to make mistakes and become ill themselves. You stop being a force multiplier and start using healthcare resources.
You going in may save the patient, it may not. But you cant save any patients in the weeks you’re laying in a hospital bed or using a vent yourself.
People are going to die. Do not become one of them.
There is no emergency in a pandemic.
During the Ebola outbreak, people were dying. But at no point did we rush in, we took the 10 minutes to put on our PPE with our spotter. If we didn’t have proper PPE we did NOT go in.
There is no emergency in a pandemic.
You may work in long term care, and want to rush in to save a patient you have had for years. Do not go in without your PPE.
There is no emergency in a pandemic.
You may have a survivor in the room, screaming at you to come in because their mother is crashing. Do not go in without your PPE.
There is no emergency in a pandemic.
You may have an infected woman in labor. Screaming for help. Do not go in without your PPE.
There is no emergency in a pandemic.
You may have a self-quarantined patient with a gunshot wound who is bleeding out. Do not go in there without your PPE.
There is no emergency in a pandemic.
Doing nothing may be the hardest thing you’ve ever had to do in your life.
Many of you say, I could never do that. I wouldn’t be able to stop myself from rushing in and saving my patient.
Liberian nurses and doctors said the same thing, and many did run in to help, saying PPE be damned. My patients need me.
Then they became infected, they infected others. And they died.
They didn’t help anyone after that.
Do not let the deaths of hundreds of healthcare workers be forgotten.

I heard that voice note and didn’t understand the big chochma of it....

Relaxing PPE standards because there isn’t enough PPE to go around?

Giving ventilators to all patients regardless of age or underlying conditions - what’s the big deal about that if there are enough ventilators to go around in the first place?
The problem is a shortage of ventilators....

In other words I didn’t hear anything of substance or value in that voice note.

Thank you to all health care providers for their hard work and putting their lives on the line for all of us.

amother

Seashell

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 10:47 am

tweety1 wrote:

Yes! I heard it first hand from a patient how patients neighbor was being neglected. Patient is bh recovering and kept on calling the family but unfortunately the family is helpless. Abt this and other stories is why hatzolah gave out that message. I heard it. Seeing is believing. Untill we wont see actual changes I don't believe it. Hatzolah has to stick up for maimonides, they have been for many yrs. Hatzolah unfortunately we need them but they're corrupt through and through. Most of these patients that nebach passed away are a direct result of neglect of the hospital.

Why go to Maimo at all then? Stop the whining and go to a different hospital. My family never used Maimo until 1 family member needed a lengthy stay and we determined that we would take the negatives of maimonides over a new york city hospital because we wanted the convenience of being close to home. Actually we were surprised that we did not have as bad an experience as we thought we would. It boggles my mind why people complain and complain and complain and then patronize the hospital. just go somewhere else. It might be inconvenient to have to travel to Manhattan every time you want to visit a patient (in normal circumstances) but if you want better care and feel you will be better served elsewhere than go elsewhere

amother

Teal

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 10:55 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Typically if youre in a life endangering crisis, you go to the closest hospital. Hatzolah or EMS. will not give you a roster of hospitals to choose from. Get off your high horse.

tweety1

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 10:59 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Cuz hatzolah insist!! Literally don't give you a choice. A family member of mine that lives in a different neighboring town was here for a simcha one night with her baby. Her baby was born with juvenile asthma and had an emergency. She called her specialist who told her go into the hospital. Her hospital is Columbia. She called hatzolah and they refused to take her to Columbia. She begged but to no avail. So she called her hatzolah where she lives and they offered to meet hatzolah of bp half way. Still nothing doing. Meanwhile this baby is getting worse and worse and hatzolah refusing to treat this baby unless she goes to miamonides. They ended up doing the half way thing but only after big askunim got involved. I was right there when all this was going on. Now again we unfortunately need them and have used them numerous times myself but they are one piece of corrupt. They must have some kind of contract slash agreement slash money arrangements with the hospital otherwise theres no valid excuse for refusing to take to a different hospital.

amother

Seashell

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 10:59 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Typically if youre in a life endangering crisis, you go to the closest hospital. Hatzolah or EMS. will not give you a roster of hospitals to choose from. Get off your high horse.

Actually no. We always went to other hospitals with my parents. And even w covid pts are making the choice to go to Lenox Hill or Sinai to name a few.

amother

Rose

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:01 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

If you are lucky to be ignorant of being taken to hospital in an emergency don’t comment here. Hatzalah and all other EMT will not take patients to manahattan hospitals from Brooklyn. I join everyone thanking nurses and health care workers saving lives and caring for patients in there hard times. I also feel it’s my obligation to let others know where there are nurses that cause harm. I’m not whining. I’m warning.

amother

Lilac

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:02 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Typically if youre in a life endangering crisis, you go to the closest hospital. Hatzolah or EMS. will not give you a roster of hospitals to choose from. Get off your high horse.

Hatzolah of bp always convinces you that this is the biggest emergency and can't go anywhere else.

Sunny Days

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:04 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Hatzolah of bp always convinces you that this is the biggest emergency and can't go anywhere else.

That’s NOT TRUE.
We went plenty in with hatzalah and never to maimo

amother

Seashell

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:08 am

Again.. the entitlement of wanting something for free. Why should Hatzala members drive you into the city?! when we had situations where my dad's oxygen was going down (years ago) and we needed a hospitalization, we had hatzala assess the urgency and then called a private ambulance service to pay for transport . Hatzala members give selflessly and I dont think their job is to be a glorified car service, taking a patient to the facilty of their choice many miles away.
Obviously in issues of trauma the nearest hospital is the one to use...

amother

Mustard

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:17 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

This

amother

Lilac

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:23 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Your a million percent right. But they have to have in mind what best for the patient. Otherwise they shouldn't be doing what they are. If you're saying they're a money making business and they don't mean the patients interest that I hear and accept. If they're giving "selflessly" they should have in mind what's best for the patient not their pocket.

amother

Azure

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:25 am

I don't live in Brooklyn, but as I understand it, Hatzalah is not supposed to transport out of their area because that would tie up resources (ambulance) that may be needed before they could return.

A year or 2 ago my husband developed a fever a few hours after an outpatient procedure and I called Hatzalah. The members who responded were friends of his and they were supposed to take him to the nearest hospital but after a lot of back and forth and phone calls they volunteered to take him back to the hospital where he had had the procedure and were familiar with his case. They shouldn't have but we were grateful that they did.

amother

Lilac

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:25 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

And wait what abt chesed members?? They very often go alot further than Manhattan hospitals. They take you to Boston, Chop, just to name a few.
I'm not saying hatzolah has to take this far but Manhattan is the basic.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:34 am

Wow, surprised how some of you can put down hatzolah. I think they are required to go to the closest location because they don't want the liability/litigation on their head if something happens on the way to a further hospital. Much easier to have a blanket rule that take to the closest hospital. They are volunteers. Don't use them if you don't want to.

Just One

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:37 am

I'm not commenting on the current situation as I bh have no experience but in general I agree that the maimonides experience can be terrible. We are a healthy young family and have not had the need to visit the hospital except for some minor kiddie stuff and labor and delivery dept. Living close by in BP Maimonides was the no brainier choice for us. I just accepted the attitude, lack of empathy and late response times as par for the course. This year I gave birth to a child with a serious medical condition. Since we knew about this beforehand we were advised to switch over to Columbia Presbyterian where the baby would be able to get specialized care. I was hospitalized for a while before the birth and spent a few months in the NICU afterwards. The first few days my husband and I would look at each other every few minutes and ask each other "how is everything SINGLE person here so nice?!" From the Nurses to the doctors to the janitor to the fellows to the social workers they were all just wonderful. Available to answer questions when we were anxious, making us feel part of the team when making important medical descisions regarding baby's care and just being genuinely friendly and empathetic. It made a hard time so much easier. I can honestly say that I miss many members of the hospital staff we had become friendly with during our stay.
It was a shock realizing that things COULD be different. Hospitals can provide physical care while also ensuring the patient is emotionally taken care of and feels part of the process.
I am assuming it's partly attributable to hospital culture and staffing, NYP had a very high nurse to patient ratio..
I'm sure right now all hospitals are stressed and hectic but it's especially at a time like this that I would want to be in a hospital with a culture of caring for their patients in a compassionate way

tweety1

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:46 am

Just One wrote:

My baby was born with a medical condition as well. At first we thought its very serious. Our testing and procedures were done in Colombia. I can't emphasize enough what you're saying is true. I remember when we were going home and took her iv out. They bandaged it up and we left. In the lobby I looked at her hand and panicked how it was bleeding. I flew up and ran straight to the back. Nobody asked me anything nobody stopped me they all saw my frantic look and got me the help in record time with the biggest smiles and friendliness.

amother

Seashell

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:54 am

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

Its a general attitude that unfortunately infects a noisy few. The attitude of I deserve to get things for free. I deserve for others to volunteer of their time and energy to give me exactly what I want and when I want. And is now translating into a total lack of undertanding as to what medical providers are now going through and demanding that they put their lives at risk for me me me .
I have faith that most of our community is not like that, its the few selfish freeloaders that make the most noise

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 11:57 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I don't understand. If Hatzolah is trying to save lives - and people are not getting care at Maimonides putting them at higher risk of dying - why wouldn't Hatzolah want to save lives by bringing them elsewhere? Surely Hatzolah members are not selflessly putting themselves out there in order that people should die.

amother

Lime

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 12:05 pm

They're certainly not doing it because they get a money payoff like was suggested by a previous poster --how bizarre and ungrateful to think that.
I'm sure there are some sort of agreements in place on th government level as to protocols so they are allowed to operate as a private and not government sponsored entity ambulance service. They don't want to be shut down and nobody in the community wants that, either.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Apr 01 2020, 12:07 pm

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

I wonder.