For those with no money, what are you doing??

amother

Violet

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 11:24 am

It is a big problem for everyone that isn't a millionaire. The community will come through with wine and matzah, you know that. More people will have to take food as a donation if it lasts months if they aren't in a profession that keeps working uniterrupted. Just remember its not just tenants, homeowners and small time landlords will be equally affected. Most yeshiva tuition payers live broke. Some who can work remotely , won't be as affected. Those with large cash savings not invested in the market, will be less. We will need to work.together as a community to get through this together. Usually in times like these you see an equal amount of extreme kindness and giving, hopefully this time will prove no different.

amother

Crimson

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 11:36 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

We will need to work.together as a community to get through this together. Usually in times like these you see an equal amount of extreme kindness and giving, hopefully this time will prove no different.

Agreed. Ours is a tight-knit community and I believe and hope that will remain the case.

enjoying kids

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 11:53 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I had two small jobs that brought me in a few extra shekels a month, just enough to cover the utilites and some basic food.

One of those jobs was babysitting, and the other was cooking for an elderly couple.

I've been sick for 3 weeks now, and confined to home. I'm afraid that my babysitting job will find a replacement for me, and I'll have to start looking for work all over again.

This would be an ideal time for me, because I would pick up SO many new jobs. I could be as picky as I wanted to be, but instead I'm stuck here doing a whole bunch of nothing. Sad

If it weren't for the neighbors leaving food on my back stairs, I would starve to death.

FF, have you ever thought of starting a blog to earn money? You write so well.

amother

Ginger

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:00 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

I'm not your tenant bh.
What is a family that lives paycheck to paycheck supposed to do? DH can't work from home. What if his company chas v'shalom closes down and he's out of work? We're supposed to dig up money from the ground??
It's never a good idea to have a tenant on the account that the rent will pay the mortgage. It means you can't afford to own a home.

She can afford it which is why the bank gave her a mortgage. Your rent is part of her income stream same as a job.

You are way off base.

Amarante

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:07 pm

This thread just illustrates the inter-connectedness of the economy.

Already huge numbers of people who don't make much money have been thrown out of work. When sports events, shows and other live events shut down there are lots of "little" people - cleaners, ushers, cab drivers who no longer have work. Restaurants are experiencing 50% decline which means waiters, bus boys etc. as well as all the people who provide food and linen and clean the restaurants are now out of work.

On this thread there are landlords versus tenants. If people don't pay rent, how is the landlord supposed to pay for utilities, mortgage, taxes and other expenses of ownership? I am not *siding* with the landlord - just illustrating that a landlord generally doesn't have a large "profit" on what they are renting. Maybe a large corporate landlord but a small landlord is depending on rental income to meet expenses just the same as any of us might rely on our paychecks or other income sources.

amother

Forestgreen

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:08 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

She can afford it which is why the bank gave her a mortgage. Your rent is part of her income stream same as a job.

You are way off base.

No I'm not. Because no one can be sure that they'll always have a tenant. Apartments can sit empty. That's why it's not smart to depend on rent to pay the mortgage. If no one rents the apartment, you're stuck & it means that you can't really afford to own.

Amarante

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 1:31 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

It’s extremely risky to buy home assuming rent is gauranteed and rarely advised.

It is no more risky than making any other financial commitment based on what one assumes will be one’s income.

If someone literally cannot make expenses if they miss one month of rent, that’s is not prudent but it is not less prudent than someone who can’t pay mortgage or even rent if they miss a paycheck.

I am not a landlord but I don’t understand why a landlord owes free rent anymore than a store owes free food. Both are necessities but that doesn’t mean that one is entitled to take from a private person because you can’t afford it.

There is going to be tremendous financial implications but a small landlord is not the demon anymore than a small store owner or restaurant owner. If a restaurant has no customers does it mean they are obligated to continue to pay workers.

Hopefully there will be expedited unemployment benefits for those who are missing a paycheck. Paid sick leave would be critical to both help people and also stop the spread of the disease.

I have told my housekeeper that I will pay her if she is sick. I don’t want her to drag herself to work and possibly infect others and I also don’t want her to suffer financially if she becomes sick.

happy12

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 1:40 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

In that case don't rent an apartment relying on your income. It's not smart. You may not afford the rent.
Rental income is income for a landlord.
(I am not a landlord)

lilies

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 1:43 pm

Amarante wrote:

I am not a landlord but I don’t understand why a landlord owes free rent anymore than a store owes free food. Both are necessities but that doesn’t mean that one is entitled to take from a private person because you can’t afford it.

No one owes free rent or food but they don't quite compare.
Would someone open a grocery or restaurant that relies on one individual's monthly food order to avoid foreclosure?
It's extremely risky. Who does that?

amother

Burgundy

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 1:56 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

I'm not the poster your referring to but I'm in the same boat.

Say I dont have saving for a few months. Now what? Dont rent and do what? Live where?

I don't think you realise the reality of people like us who are scraping by.

I do realize . I myself have been literally homeless multiple times.

However, the landlord also has a family to feed, and it’s certainly not fair to just say they have to forgive your rent because you don’t have it. Now they could do that, but it’s a huge chesed, not an obligation.

You wouldn’t walk into the grocery store and fill a cart and walk out and say “but I have no money. You have to let me take it.” You won’t insist a store owner give your kids Pesach clothes for free. Landlords are people and it’s horrible if a tenant is hurting but that doesn’t give anyone the right to pass the hurt onto someone else.

Reasonable things to do are to ask for the landlord to accept late payment , even paying 1.5x rent next month and month after, but that’s very generous. The landlord is possibly unable to work now also, and s/he still has to pay mortgage. What if he cannot pay his rent because you refuse to pay yours , should he then end up homeless? It’s just a crazy logic. He should just forgive you thousands of dollars because you are in tough times. He most likely is too. If you signed a lease you’re halachically obligated to come up with the rent unless the landlord agrees to some other arrangement. I would imagine this qualifies as straight geneva, but if you think it’s not ask your rav.

I’m not trying to be harsh, but landlords are humans too.

amother

Forestgreen

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 1:57 pm

happy12 wrote:

In that case don't rent an apartment relying on your income. It's not smart. You may not afford the rent.
Rental income is income for a landlord.
(I am not a landlord)

You're not making any sense and you know that.
No one is expecting free rent. But if it comes down to paying rent on time or buying food, people will rather buy food and pay late the rent.

Amarante

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 2:02 pm

lilies wrote:

That wasn't my point.

Why is the landlord penalized for needing rent to meet expenses versus a tenant?

Shouldn't everyone have ample emergency funds so they can exist if their source of income decreases.

And a restaurant owner probably does NOT contemplate a situation in which the business drops by 50% because of any kind of emergency.

My mentioning food is that it is also a necessity like shelter but no one thinks that the grocery should have to give out free food because a customer lost their job or their income dropped in some way.

I am not defending landlords or anyone else - I am just pointing out that to say I can't afford rent, therefore I am not going to pay because my landlord should not have depended on my rent doesn't make sense.

Hopefully employment insurance will be set up on an emergency basis so people who are losing income because their jobs have disappeared will have enough income to meet their basic living expenses.

lilies

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 2:03 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Does a grocery store owner have to allow those who can't afford bread and milk to buy on credit? No. Do many? Yes. Why?

If a landlord owns a home in a financially sensible way then they would be able to allow the tenant a bit of leeway.
Never mind the rich landlords.

Another point; Let's assume the grocer charges you $10 for a slice of bread and $100 for a cup of water. Though some would claim supply and demand, it does leave a nasty taste.

amother

Papaya

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 2:09 pm

My DH owns rental properties. Very small income in a cheap housing area. When they aren’t rented it definetly hurts us.
But he gives his tenants (non Jews) tons of leeway with paying the rent. Waves late fees, ignores small amounts missing in the rent, gives many extensions. It’s cheaper for him to lose money then to have one month vacancy. Or to prepare a house for a new tenant is a few 1000. (Paint, clean carpets, finish floors, clean, repairs).
I would be scared to take the risk to lose the house we live in though by relying on rent

lilies

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 2:09 pm

Amarante wrote:

By definition; if a landlord has been approved for a mortgage and has been able to afford a down payment, they are many times in a better financial state than their tenant, in my city. Of course, when a tenant is in a better financial state - different case.
Yes, wouldn't it be nice if everyone has ample emergency funds?

Amarante

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 2:11 pm

lilies wrote:

Stores that charge that much are breaking the law - it's called price gouging. They "busted" a dollar store in NJ that was charging obscene prices for cleaning products and it is facing a potential $30,000 fine.

People on this thread didn't seem to be offering a suggestion regarding negotiating with their landlord - they merely said they wouldn't pay if they couldn't afford to. That is different although honestly it is difficult to imagine that someone whose finances are that tight would be able to realistically pay amounts later since they would still have missing income from when they couldn't work and their monthly expenses would still not have much room for paying more each month to make up any deficits.

However, again, perhaps a large corporate landlord can afford to cover some missed rents but many small landlords figure in rent payments as part of their income stream. Hopefully a homeowner would have more of an emergency fund so that one or even two month's rent wouldn't drive them into foreclosure since homeowners as opposed to tenants also have other emergency expenses that come up in terms of maintaining property - whether they live in their home or rent out an apartment