Well done antivaxxers

chmom

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:31 pm

This study was published this week in the New England journal of medicine ( one of the best regarded medical journals in the world)
I know we are already on to the next infectious disease but everyone who had been crying antisemitism during the measles outbreak better read this and take a good, hard , honest look at the way certain segments of the frum community have been behaving.
I only hope that the behaviour will improve this time around

Consequences of Undervaccination — Measles Outbreak, New York City, 2018–2019
List of authors.
Jane R. Zucker, M.D., Jennifer B. Rosen, M.D., Martha Iwamoto, M.D., Robert J. Arciuolo, M.P.H., et al.
March 12, 2020
N Engl J Med 2020; 382:1009-1017
DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa1912514
Abstract
BACKGROUND
Measles was declared eliminated in the United States in 2000, but the risk of outbreaks owing to international importations remains. An outbreak of measles in New York City began when one unvaccinated child returned home from Israel with measles; onset of rash occurred on September 30, 2018, 9 days after the child returned home.
METHODS
We investigated suspected cases of measles by conducting interviews, reviewing medical and immunization records, identifying exposed persons, and performing diagnostic testing. Measles–mumps–rubella (MMR) vaccine (given as either MMR or measles–mumps–rubella–varicella vaccine and collectively referred to as MMR vaccine) uptake was monitored with the use of the Citywide Immunization Registry. The total direct cost to the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene was calculated.
RESULTS
A total of 649 cases of measles were confirmed, with onsets of rash occurring between September 30, 2018, and July 15, 2019. A majority of the patients (93.4%) were part of the Orthodox Jewish community, and 473 of the patients (72.9%) resided in the Williamsburg area of Brooklyn, New York. The median age was 3 years; 81.2% of the patients were 18 years of age or younger, and 85.8% of the patients with a known vaccination history were unvaccinated. Serious complications included pneumonia (in 37 patients [5.7%]) and hospitalization (in 49 patients [7.6%]); among the patients who were hospitalized, 20 (40.8%) were admitted to an intensive care unit. As a result of efforts to promote vaccination, the percentage of children in Williamsburg who received at least one dose of MMR vaccine increased from 79.5% to 91.1% among children 12 to 59 months of age. As of September 9, 2019, a total of 559 staff members at the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (7% of the agency) had been involved in the measles response. The cost of the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene response was $8.4 million.
CONCLUSIONS
Importation of measles and vaccination delays among young children led to an outbreak of measles in New York City. The outbreak response was resource intensive and caused serious illness, particularly among unvaccinated children.

amother

Maroon

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:41 pm

Those numbers wouldn't be accurate at all if you know the community. Most people who don't VAX would not have reported their cases at all or gone to the Dr. if they didn't definitely need to. And despite it all it seems somewhat well contained as it stayed mainly within the group who shared it amongst themselves intentionally and now they are less catchy than you and me who did VAX.

I am not part of it, just sharing facts.

Sebastian

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:43 pm

I think anti vaxers should have to pay for the cost of an outbreak when they cause it.

amother

Copper

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:46 pm

a few questions and comments if I may:
-please link a source
-numbers listed of known vaccination history. what percentage were of unknown vaccination history?
-the number of measles cases were way higher than the confirmed cases. many many people didnt report because their kids did well. the percentages are skewed towards the worse cases.
-20 out of 649 confirmed cases admitted to icu = 3% of confirmed cases. the rest of the numbers while unfortunate are not scary or dangerous.
-the conclusion is that the outbreak caused serious illness particularly among unvaccinated. what is the basis for this statement: why don't all the other numbers address which were vaccinated and which weren't? what percentage of those hospitalized were vaccinated? what percentage of those in icu were vaccinated? I understand unvaccinated are more likely to have contracted the disease but were they proportionately more likely to suffer serious consequences? theres no mention of that in the study other than in the conclusion

thank you!

TheNeutralOne

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:48 pm

Why are you posting this now?

chmom

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:48 pm

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/.....ticle

Here‘s the source
All other facts can be seen in the article

chmom

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:51 pm

TheNeutralOne wrote:

Why are you posting this now?

Because the Study was published last week and I am shocked at some of the callous behaviour in the frum community concerning the Coronavirus

amother

Copper

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:51 pm

Sebastian wrote:

I think anti vaxers should have to pay for the cost of an outbreak when they cause it.

and vaccine companies should pay for damages vaccines cost. it goes both ways.

TheNeutralOne

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 1:58 pm

Sebastian wrote:

if they did, they would end up paying next to nothing if each case went to trial. Anti vax theory is based on junk science.

Who cares right now? This conversation has been had over and over and over ad nauseam. It’s old and tired. It’s a dead horse we can all stop beating.

We are currently dealing with a health crisis for which there is no vaccine, so we can stop all the us vs them rhetoric and band together to support one another.

chmom

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 2:04 pm

TheNeutralOne wrote:

Exactly that is why I am posting!
Communities are NOT TAKING THIS SERIOUSLY
Even though school has been cancelled in my city, learning is continuing , just not in the school building. Forcing several grades into one small room at the same time.
Why!? Why will our so called leaders not adhere to public health guidelines?
Why do so many people think they are above the law and nature?
I cannot fathom what is going on in their minds

amother

Copper

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 2:10 pm

chmom wrote:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1912514?query=recirc_curatedRelated_article

Here‘s the source
All other facts can be seen in the article

thanks for the source. I dont have access to the full article to see any of the other facts I mentioned or questioned. if you do, can you copy paste the whole thing?

bbhem5

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 2:17 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

a few questions and comments if I may:
-20 out of 649 confirmed cases admitted to icu = .03% of confirmed cases. the rest of the numbers while unfortunate are not scary or dangerous.

I'll refrain from commenting about anything else but please check your math!
20 out of 649 = 3.0%! Sounds scary and dangerous to me!

amother

Maroon

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 2:32 pm

There is no parallel at all. The potency and spread of corona has never existed before. Measles antivaxers are immune now. Its done for now. This is a whole other beast. Start a thread to discuss the unthoughtful irresponsible people with today in mind and you'll get much more support.

amother

Linen

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 3:24 pm

chmom wrote:

Because the Study was published last week and I am shocked at some of the callous behaviour in the frum community concerning the Coronavirus

ah so you're shocked at the behavior of the frum community
not at the behavior of the anti vaxxers
I get it now

amother

Copper

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 3:34 pm

bbhem5 wrote:

I'll refrain from commenting about anything else but please check your math!
20 out of 649 = 3.0%! Sounds scary and dangerous to me!

you're right. I will edit my post.

southernbubby

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 3:37 pm

For whatever it's worth, my sister lives in an area with few Jews and even fewer Orthodox Jews. Everyone and his brother in law is crowding into the stores to buy a lifetime supply of toilet paper and bottled water in case they have to quarantine which is more than likely to happen because of the sizes of the crowds. It makes no sense at all, the way things are being handled.
So life in Monsey has not shut down. Schools and shuls are open and I am sure that the world is looking down at that but at least we are not killing each other for toilet paper.

JerseyShore

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 8:31 pm

Always check the author affiliations first.

"From the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, New York (J.R.Z., J.B.R., M.I., R.J.A., M.L.-E., N.M.V., J.L.R., B.M.I., A.J., M.A., S.C.H., T.G.M., M.O.K., B.M.M., D.C.D., O.B.), and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta (J.R.Z., N.M.V.)."

Published in response to a $1.8 million dollar grant from Merck

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/......page

NEJM also earns 100s of thousands of $$ in reprints which are purchased by the drug companies and distributed to doctors.

This conference led by Dr. Stanley Plotkin, explained that waning immunity and vaccine failure has been the cause of numerous outbreaks since the 80s.

https://cvi.asm.org/content/24/7/e00034-17

amother

Blush

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 10:26 pm

With all your vaccines, a new virus can develop overnight and sicken everyone anyway.

dancingqueen

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 10:31 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

With all your vaccines, a new virus can develop overnight and sicken everyone anyway.

Right, so aren’t you glad we have vaccines to prevent against those illnesses?

amother

Blush

Sun, Mar 15 2020, 10:58 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Right, so aren’t you glad we have vaccines to prevent against those illnesses?

A vaccine is nothing. If It’s G-d’s will for someone to be healthy or sick , they will be.