Halachically prohibited-Pesach travel to Florida

imasinger

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 12:17 pm

I just saw this:

"*To all those from out of state considering spending Pesach here in Florida*

It's *Halachically prohibited* and *medically irresponsible* to come for Pesach.

The Florida health care system is currently overburdened and an influx of new patients can lead to deaths. In addition to being a chillul Hashem, this may be considered a case of retzicha, murder.

If you choose to come anyways, jeopardizing the lives of many in Florida, you must quarantine for 14 days. This means no leaving the house, no excursions, no beach, no pool, no restaurants, etc.

Please be informed: Our local Shuls, organizations, Chabad Houses, or Kosher establishments will not accommodate you for davening, mikvah, meals, tickets to parks or similar.

Wishing everyone a kosher, happy and healthy Pesach."

I didn't see a signature, but it looks legit.

ETA: A friend just shared something similar from S Florida Hatzala, cosigned by many area rabbonim.

watergirl

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 12:43 pm

This is a bigger deal than people may realize. From what I see on fb, the jewish stores in florida are checking IDs/proof of Florida citizenship at the door and not allowing in out of towners. Its the only way to enforce this. People who come from out of state wont be able to shop, etc.

amother

Amethyst

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 12:45 pm

I am quarantined so this has nothing to do with me.

I have an issue with the term "halachacally prohibited". Everyone has their own rav and their own psak. I always hear 70 paths to torah. Zu v'zu divrei elokim chaim. Everybody is right. This is why when some local shuls and yeshivos stayed open recently (I think they've since closed) they weren't going against daas torah. Some big rabbanim were advocating staying open. You say it's risking your life? They say Torah will save your life! And they have some big rabbanim on their side.

amother

Green

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 12:48 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

I am quarantined so this has nothing to do with me.

I have an issue with the term "halachacally prohibited". Everyone has their own rav and their own psak. I always hear 70 paths to torah. Zu v'zu divrei elokim chaim. Everybody is right. This is why when some local shuls and yeshivos stayed open recently (I think they've since closed) they weren't going against daas torah. Some big rabbanim were advantaging staying open. You say it's risking your life? They say Torah will save your life! And they have some big rabbanim on their side.

Learning and davening are not equivalent to going to Florida for pesach.

amother

Copper

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 12:49 pm

If these are the rabbanim in FL they can post a psak for their community. And if their psak is that FL Jewish institutions should not provide services or help to those who choose to come, to provide a deterrent, that is a valid psak.

watergirl

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 12:58 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

I am quarantined so this has nothing to do with me.

I have an issue with the term "halachacally prohibited". Everyone has their own rav and their own psak. I always hear 70 paths to torah. Zu v'zu divrei elokim chaim. Everybody is right. This is why when some local shuls and yeshivos stayed open recently (I think they've since closed) they weren't going against daas torah. Some big rabbanim were advantaging staying open. You say it's risking your life? They say Torah will save your life! And they have some big rabbanim on their side.

What does that have to do with picking up and going to Florida for pesach?

amother

Tan

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:00 pm

watergirl wrote:

I live in the Aventura Area
Sara’s Tent, Kosher Kingdom, Winn Dixie, Publix, Hacienda, is not asking for id.
I’m not sure what is going on with
Walmart, Target, Whole Foods.
Costco - is only allowing 50 ppl in at a time. The lines are around the building. If you wait patiently you will get in
At least in my area they are not asking for if
It would be too hard since a lot of the snowbirds are stuck here and they have ids from up north even though they live 6 months out of the year in fl.

B”H we have everything, but chicken is a little hard to get

amother

Firebrick

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:03 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

It’s halachicly prohibited by the Rabbonim that signed and are the local Rabbonim.

I don’t know that a NY or NJ rav has the right to give a halachic ruling for FL.

watergirl

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:07 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

The snowbirds would have a utility bill. Thats proof. This may be starting later on closer to pesach.

SixOfWands

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:09 pm

Rabbis issue psakim all the time. Your skirt must be this length, or you can't wear that sheitel. No internet, not that hecksher. Whatever. I've never heard one saying "please note that this is only for people who follow me; if you don't, I fully recognize that others disagree with me."

This is no different.

In any case, its fair warning. If you show up, our stores and community facilities won't be open to you. We need to protect ourselves. Be guided accordingly.

amother

Tan

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:09 pm

watergirl wrote:

The snowbirds would have a utility bill. Thats proof. This may be starting later on closer to pesach.

I’m just saying that the kosher stores in my area are not asking for ID

amother

Tan

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:10 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Six Wands- which stores are asking for ID

amother

Amethyst

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:17 pm

watergirl wrote:

What does that have to do with picking up and going to Florida for pesach?

Maybe I didn't explain myself well.

The op said that it is "halachically prohibited" to travel to Florida this pesach. It seems various rabbanim in Florida paskened this.

My point is that our system for halacha often leads to problems. Everyone holds something different, and everyone is correct. All opinions are beautiful. Last shabbos my rav wrote an email explaining he was keeping our shul open. (It has since been closed) he was careful to say that we are correct in keeping our shul open and we are relying on our daas torah, and the shuls that are closed are also 100% correct and are relying on their daas torah.
Zu v'zu divrei elokim chaim.

I always thought this made no sense. Someone is right and someone is wrong. We can't all be right.

The op is informing us on the final psak. There's no debate. It's assur to go to Florida for pesach. Well, what if I find you a rav who says it's ok, as long as I quarantine myself? Is he wrong? We always say everyone is right, it's all correct. Why is it officially "halachically prohibited" as the op is saying?

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:18 pm

We canceled our tickets to Florida for pesach. Just thinking about all the elderly people there it really is so so dangerous if a bunch of New Yorkers show up. While it was not an easy decision and puts a lot more work on us over here we hope everyone else does the same. I completely agree that if you go to Florida and somehow infected an elderly person unknowingly it can literally be considered murder.

SixOfWands

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:20 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

She's informing you of what the situation will be if you go to Florida.

Simple1

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:27 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

The sad thing is my kids WONT be able to come and I won’t have any guests either
I never did Pesach just DH and I alone 😢

I think family visiting parents should be an exception. Not that I have any say in the matter.

amother

Tan

Thu, Mar 19 2020, 1:30 pm

Simple1 wrote:

I think family visiting parents should be an exception. Not that I have any say in the matter.

I wish
I really miss them but they don’t want to risk getting sick and I don’t blame them