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Anyone else pushing off mikvah indefinitely?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:36 pm
I am way too nervous to go to the mikvah. Not the dunking part. The water, I have been told is fine. But being in a room that is not ventilated well, and just being out of my house, makes me way too nervous to go to the mikvah. My husband is fine with this decision. He even said that he thinks its pikuach nefesh to go. And I feel this way too.
Im just so sad that I am going to be nidda for who knows how long.

I wish there was some sort of heter or something the rabbis could come up with for this very scary situation.
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amother




Cerulean
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:42 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am way too nervous to go to the mikvah. Not the dunking part. The water, I have been told is fine. But being in a room that is not ventilated well, and just being out of my house, makes me way too nervous to go to the mikvah. My husband is fine with this decision. He even said that he thinks its pikuach nefesh to go. And I feel this way too.
Im just so sad that I am going to be nidda for who knows how long.

I wish there was some sort of heter or something the rabbis could come up with for this very scary situation.

Would you go to an OB appointment if you were pregnant?

Why is mikvah worse? A mikvah that is following protocol (call to make sure they are) is EXTREMELY safe. They have taken extreme steps to make sure that the possibility of transmission is negligible.

BTW, most bathrooms are the best ventilated rooms in a home.
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amother




Lawngreen
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:45 pm
My mikva now is safer than my home or grocery. It's so well sanitized and the rooms are being sanitized between uses. And they have very strict protocol in place. I wouldn't think twice about going.
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amother




Cerulean
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:45 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I wish there was some sort of heter or something the rabbis could come up with for this very scary situation.

You got a heter... not to go. (Right?)

The other heter is to take BC to prevent yourself from becoming niddah again. But the Rabbis don't make up the mitzvos, Hashem does. And it's a clear halacha, not debated anywhere, that the only way to remove Tumas Niddah is by immersing in a body of "living" water. It's not like they can temporarily cancel the Issur Kareis of relations with a Niddah, only Hashem can do that.

Feel free to ask if a lake, river, or ocean is an acceptable alternative (many, but not all, are) if that makes you feel safer.
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:47 pm
curious question. are all the recent threads discouraging women to go to mikva at this time composed by the same person? its in a cluster and somehow seems to have a hidden agenda. I wouldnt be able to handle the idea of forced nidda. if its good enough for the cdc its good enough for me (taking all precautions seriously of course) please dont project your unfound fears onto others. no no no!!!! there is no alternative heter for getting tahor
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:50 pm
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:
curious question. are all the recent threads discouraging women to go to mikva at this time composed by the same person? its in a cluster and somehow seems to have a hidden agenda. I wouldnt be able to handle the idea of forced nidda. if its good enough for the cdc its good enough for me (taking all precautions seriously of course) please dont project your unfound fears onto others. no no no!!!! there is no alternative heter for getting tahor
I have not posted on this site about mikvah during this time. I am not the same poster as any other mikvah thread.
And I am not trying to project my fears (which are real for me, so please dont be rude and say they are unfounded. Many women have them now. Ive spoken to many women about this)
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:52 pm
amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:
You got a heter... not to go. (Right?)

The other heter is to take BC to prevent yourself from becoming niddah again. But the Rabbis don't make up the mitzvos, Hashem does. And it's a clear halacha, not debated anywhere, that the only way to remove Tumas Niddah is by immersing in a body of "living" water. It's not like they can temporarily cancel the Issur Kareis of relations with a Niddah, only Hashem can do that.

Feel free to ask if a lake, river, or ocean is an acceptable alternative (many, but not all, are) if that makes you feel safer.
No, I have no heter. My husband and I talked about this. My husband is even more nervous that I am. And I wont ask because if the rabbi tells me that of course I can and should go, then what? I still am scared to go.

And what would BC help? I am already nidda.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:53 pm
amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:
Would you go to an OB appointment if you were pregnant?

Why is mikvah worse? A mikvah that is following protocol (call to make sure they are) is EXTREMELY safe. They have taken extreme steps to make sure that the possibility of transmission is negligible.

BTW, most bathrooms are the best ventilated rooms in a home.
A bathroom with no window is not a well ventillated room, as are the mikvah rooms in the mikvah where I go.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:55 pm
There is an interesting article about this in ynet now, for Hebrew readers (yes, it is a secular site, but it very realistically reflects what's going on in Israel now in terms of this being a hot topic in dati circles).

In short, it discusses how many women are in a big dilemma.

https://xnet.ynet.co.il/articl......html
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:56 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
A bathroom with no window is not a well ventillated room, as are the mikvah rooms in the mikvah where I go.


I have never seen a well-ventilated mikva. They are all a maze of windowless rooms and a windowless hallway.
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amother




Cerulean
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:59 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
I have never seen a well-ventilated mikva. They are all a maze of windowless rooms and a windowless hallway.

Have you never heard of an HVAC system?
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amother




Pewter
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:59 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
A bathroom with no window is not a well ventillated room, as are the mikvah rooms in the mikvah where I go.


Why don't you do all the preps at home? When you go you just get undressed and dunk. You barely need to touch anything. And if you don't touch your face at all and soap as soon as you get home how would you catch anything?
I'm pretty sure it's less contaminated than your grocery.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:03 pm
amother [ Pewter ] wrote:
Why don't you do all the preps at home? When you go you just get undressed and dunk. You barely need to touch anything. And if you don't touch your face at all and soap as soon as you get home how would you catch anything?
I'm pretty sure it's less contaminated than your grocery.
And this is where the problem is. Its like going to the grocery or anywhere else. I have not left my house in a while now. My husband has been going shopping.
In terms of touching things, this virus could be living on anything, so you take your clothing off, and where do you put them? On a sink or chair or wherever. And what if that surface had some droplets left from someone who went to the mikvah unknowingly being sick? What then?
And yes, of course one would prep at home, I do that all of the time anyway. Its being in a not well ventilated area that makes me very nervous as well.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:05 pm
amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:
Have you never heard of an HVAC system?


I don't know if all mikvas have them. In any case, by the looks of the mikvas I've seen, if there were such a system, it wouldn't be fresh air circulating through.

And true ventilation means an open window. Period.

In Israel, they keep telling us to open our windows now to air out the houses. Not to turn on air systems.
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amother




Cerulean
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:09 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
And this is where the problem is. Its like going to the grocery or anywhere else. I have not left my house in a while now. My husband has been going shopping.
In terms of touching things, this virus could be living on anything, so you take your clothing off, and where do you put them? On a sink or chair or wherever. And what if that surface had some droplets left from someone who went to the mikvah unknowingly being sick? What then?
And yes, of course one would prep at home, I do that all of the time anyway. Its being in a not well ventilated area that makes me very nervous as well.

That's why they wipe down and disinfect surfaces.

Incidentally, do you handle DH's clothing with gloves and disinfect any chair he sat on, since you say he leaves the house to shop? Do you make sure he changes his clothing every time he comes in the house? Do you disinfect the container of cream cheese before putting it into your fridge? Because HE could be carrying droplets that got on HIS clothes from sitting somewhere or brushing against somewhere, and any container (where the virus lasts even longer) can also carry the virus. Which is FAR MORE likely than your clothing getting droplets from a disinfected surface in the mikvah.

It is reasonable to be concerned, but unreasonable to apply standards to mikvah that we don't apply anywhere else.

BTW, the V of HVAC stands for ventilation. Which means replacing indoor air with outdoor air. Oh, and the virus particles, unless aerosolized, LAND, they don't stay in the air indefinitely (as measles does). That's why coronavirus is not considered an airborne illness.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:13 pm
amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's less contaminated than your grocery.


We haven't gone grocery shopping in more than a week. We order everything. If we desperately need something this week (it is taking the orders a full week to be delivered these days), one of us will go to the supermarket for five minutes, with gloves. BTW our supermarket is open 24/7 now, so we can go at 4 am, when less people will be about.

You can't compare 5 min with gloves in a supermarket, to undressing and dipping naked. Even the most careful woman will touch something.

And for all the talk and guidance about disinfecting mikvaot, there is no real supervision that anyone is doing it right. The mikva attendant has not undergone a disinfecting professional development course, and she doesn't have time to bleach everything. The water is not professionally checked by any superintendent.
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amother




Cerulean
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:20 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
We haven't gone grocery shopping in more than a week. We order everything. If we desperately need something this week (it is taking the orders a full week to be delivered these days), one of us will go to the supermarket for five minutes, with gloves. BTW our supermarket is open 24/7 now, so we can go at 4 am, when less people will be about.

You can't compare 5 min with gloves in a supermarket, to undressing and dipping naked. Even the most careful woman will touch something.

And for all the talk and guidance about disinfecting mikvaot, there is no real supervision that anyone is doing it right. The mikva attendant has not undergone a disinfecting professional development course, and she doesn't have time to bleach everything. The water is not professionally checked by any superintendent.

Do you disinfect all containers of food which enter your home? Do you know how long the virus can last on that cardboard box brought to your home, or on that tub of cottage cheese?

Do you change your clothing when you come home from the store at 4 am, in case you brushed against a surface?

The length of time you spend is not the issue. Five minutes or five hours, if you brush against a surface with the virus (as in the previous example) it takes less than five seconds to pick it up. Most women are spending not much more than 5 minutes in the mikvah either. And you can certainly wear gloves, and just take them off when you get into the water, if that makes you feel better. In fact, you can bring a clean bag to place your clothing into, so it won't touch any surfaces. You can bring your own robe, and a second bag to place it into, with gloves, to bring home and immediately wash in hot water. You can take as many precautions as you want! Even more than in the grocery store!

You're not walking around the mikvah building naked and brushing against surfaces.

The mikvah water itself doesn't need checking by a superintendent. Chlorination kills viruses. Period. There is ZERO evidence that the virus has been passed on in ANY swimming pool or hot tub.
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amother




Oak
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:22 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
We haven't gone grocery shopping in more than a week. We order everything. If we desperately need something this week (it is taking the orders a full week to be delivered these days), one of us will go to the supermarket for five minutes, with gloves. BTW our supermarket is open 24/7 now, so we can go at 4 am, when less people will be about.

You can't compare 5 min with gloves in a supermarket, to undressing and dipping naked. Even the most careful woman will touch something.

And for all the talk and guidance about disinfecting mikvaot, there is no real supervision that anyone is doing it right. The mikva attendant has not undergone a disinfecting professional development course, and she doesn't have time to bleach everything. The water is not professionally checked by any superintendent.


I truly can’t relate to this level of anxiety. Is anxiety baseline for you in other areas of your life too?
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:23 pm
amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:


Do you change your clothing when you come home from the store at 4 am, in case you brushed against a surface?

.


Yes.
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amother




Cerulean
 

Post  Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:25 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
Yes.

Wonderful. Can you answer the other questions too? Do you disinfect the bottle of juice? You never know who breathed or sneezed or coughed in the vicinity. Do you quarantine the cardboard boxes for a few hours before moving them?
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