Anyone else pushing off mikvah indefinitely?

amother

Crimson

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:26 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

I truly can’t relate to this level of anxiety. Is anxiety baseline for you in other areas of your life too?

No, actually, I don't suffer from anxiety at all.

I live in Israel, this has been hotly debated, and I happen to agree with those who say it's a huge risk. To each their own opinion.

I'm the one who posted on another thread with the link to a public statement that consolidated some of the reasons why it's risky to go now. I happen to agree with them. It doesn't make me an overly anxious person, just like you thinking it's ok to go doesn't necessarily make you a reckless person.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:26 pm

I won’t go, we have my bil on chemo staying w us and it is too risky. Its everywhere and lives for days or weeks and I couldn’t live with myself if I brought something home. This is extraordinary times. By staying in we all can save lives

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:27 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

A bathroom with no window is not a well ventillated room, as are the mikvah rooms in the mikvah where I go.

A window isn't the only form of ventilation. The mikva's have a very good ventilation system.
None of the bathrooms in my house have windows. We have good fans.

stephie

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:29 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

I agree completely, it is not nice to imply that someone following guidance to stay home is suffering from mental illness !

amother

Crimson

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:32 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Wonderful. Can you answer the other questions too? Do you disinfect the bottle of juice? You never know who breathed or sneezed or coughed in the vicinity. Do you quarantine the cardboard boxes for a few hours before moving them?

I don't disinfect the bottles and containers. I do avoid touching the bags things arrive in with bare hands.

I possibly should disinfect things, but as I said, I'm not a naturally anxious person. The mikva situation, however, seems to me to be a lot more risky than touching a container that was delivered in a bag to my door. You're naked, you are placing your clothes there, you are breathing stuffy air, you are entering water which no one has checked except for the attendant, and she may be wonderful but she can make mistakes too. It's not like she received any serious training for this.

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:32 pm

stephie wrote:

I agree completely, it is not nice to imply that someone following guidance to stay home is suffering from mental illness !

Just curious, does this same guidance tell people not to go grocery shopping, not to go to prenatal appointments, and not to go to the pharmacy? Or is mikvah the only thing on the chopping block?

EVERYONE agrees that someone in quarantine should not go to mikvah.

But if we are taking some level of risk for anything, mikvah - one of the foundations of the Jewish home - is worth taking that risk for.

(Of course, if a mikvah is NOT following protocols, it is far safer to stay home. But those protocols are very clear, and it should not be too difficult to find one that IS obeying.)

amother

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:36 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

I truly can’t relate to this level of anxiety. Is anxiety baseline for you in other areas of your life too?

I am the OP and I will say that right now, with this insane virus sweeping the globe, and deaths happening all over the place, I think anyone who is anxious about going outside has what to fear. Seriously, I didnt ask this question so that people could be rude? I just wanted to know if there were others like me.
These are different times we are living right now. Please, dont judge others based on what is freaking them out right now.

amother

Pumpkin

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:36 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Do you disinfect all containers of food which enter your home? Do you know how long the virus can last on that cardboard box brought to your home, or on that tub of cottage cheese?

Do you change your clothing when you come home from the store at 4 am, in case you brushed against a surface?

The length of time you spend is not the issue. Five minutes or five hours, if you brush against a surface with the virus (as in the previous example) it takes less than five seconds to pick it up. Most women are spending not much more than 5 minutes in the mikvah either. And you can certainly wear gloves, and just take them off when you get into the water, if that makes you feel better. In fact, you can bring a clean bag to place your clothing into, so it won't touch any surfaces. You can bring your own robe, and a second bag to place it into, with gloves, to bring home and immediately wash in hot water. You can take as many precautions as you want! Even more than in the grocery store!

You're not walking around the mikvah building naked and brushing against surfaces.

The mikvah water itself doesn't need checking by a superintendent. Chlorination kills viruses. Period. There is ZERO evidence that the virus has been passed on in ANY swimming pool or hot tub.

We hear you. You are highly anxious. We understand you. Please read this advice from cerulean. Take a breath, maybe try to be the first one in or at least one of the first ones.

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:37 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

I don't disinfect the bottles and containers. I do avoid touching the bags things arrive in with bare hands.

I possible should disinfect things, but as I said, I'm not a naturally anxious person. The mikva situation, however, seems to me to be a lot more risky than touching a container that was delivered in a bag to my door. You're naked, you are placing your clothes there, you are breathing stuffy air, you are entering water which no one has checked except for the attendant, and she may be wonderful but she can make mistakes too. It's not like she received any serious training for this.

You're only naked IN THE WATER.

You arrive at the mikvah fully clothed. You change into a robe in a bathroom, and go to the mikvah itself, where the mikvah lady is standing, gloved and masked, 8 feet away from you. You remove your robe and place it on a disinfected surface. You go into the chlorinated mikvah pool, avoiding touching the handrails. You come back out of the mikvah pool, put back on your robe, and get dressed.

You can feel free to bring your own clorox wipes to disinfect any surface you plan on touching. You can bring a bag to place your clothing or robe into. You can wear gloves the entire time, aside for in the water itself.

You aren't walking around naked, the mikvah is well-ventilated (otherwise it would be very moldy and mildewy), and stuffy air is not a transmission risk anyhow.

amother

Crimson

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:37 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

(Of course, if a mikvah is NOT following protocols, it is far safer to stay home. But those protocols are very clear, and it should not be too difficult to find one that IS obeying.)

A lot of women aren't confident their mikva is following protocol.

A lot of women posted on other threads that no protocol at all was followed, when they went to mikva.

There is no higher up authority or health ministry checking that all protocols are being followed. A woman entering the mikva can't know if the water has been disinfected to the proper chemical levels.

amother

Copper

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:47 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

I don't know if all mikvas have them. In any case, by the looks of the mikvas I've seen, if there were such a system, it wouldn't be fresh air circulating through.

And true ventilation means an open window. Period.

In Israel, they keep telling us to open our windows now to air out the houses. Not to turn on air systems.

Im an architect, I design mikvas. They are very well ventilated.

amother

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:49 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

And beyond that, a woman who is sick but doesnt have any symptoms so doesnt know she is sick, could go to the mikvah, touch things and then myself or any other woman, could go after her and that would be terrible. And any woman who went after that woman would have to be quarantined and possibly be infected. We just dont know.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 7:01 pm

The guidance is to STAY HOME . If the family needs something have just one person go, stay more than 6 feet of anyone else, don’t touch things , don’t touch your face . When you get home change clothes immediately , wash thoroughly, sanitize surfaces of anything you bring into home ( food packaging etc ) . This is not anxiety, it is preventing the spread of disease that is spreading exponentially . it lives in the air, it lives on all surfaces ( knobs, chairs, doors, railings etc etc )
quote="amother [ Cerulean ]"]Just curious, does this same guidance tell people not to go grocery shopping, not to go to prenatal appointments, and not to go to the pharmacy? Or is mikvah the only thing on the chopping block?

EVERYONE agrees that someone in quarantine should not go to mikvah.

But if we are taking some level of risk for anything, mikvah - one of the foundations of the Jewish home - is worth taking that risk for.

(Of course, if a mikvah is NOT following protocols, it is far safer to stay home. But those protocols are very clear, and it should not be too difficult to find one that IS obeying.)[/quote]

amother

Navy

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 7:11 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Do you disinfect all containers of food which enter your home? Do you know how long the virus can last on that cardboard box brought to your home, or on that tub of cottage cheese?
.

I was surprised by this sentence, felt I had to comment.
Of course I do. Dont you?

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 7:18 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

The family needs something - a pure mother, no less important than tylenol or cake mix. So she will go, by herself, having prepared fully at home, stay 6 feet away from everyone, including the mikvah lady, not touch anything, especially not her face. She will change her clothes and shower again when she returns home. She is thus preventing the spread of disease, right?

BTW, the virus does NOT live in the air, unless it is aerosolized. Which it isn't, unless they regularly intubate women in the mikvah or concentrate and spray the virus into the air. Droplets land.