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Zoom can not be used at the Seder (see article)
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 6:26 am
CYLOR! I just heard a shiur from a noted American posek who said no, though left some opening for maybe maybe under extremely extenuating circumstances (e.g. a lonely person who's suicidal), and even then...
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 7:15 am
octopus wrote:
I don't know why article was published. This was a private psak under specific circumstances ,not a heter across the board.

Was going to post this
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 7:22 am
singleagain wrote:
Someone just sent me this article that seems to say that this year, if you start zoom before chag, you can leave it running and use it. Here is a link and I will also post the article

http://www.israelnationalnews......Y3myg


Halakhic ruling: 'Zoom' software can be used during Seder
Group of rabbis issue halakhic ruling permitting holding of Seder in presence of software that connects elders and their families.

Arutz Sheva Staff , 24/03/20 23:33

Passover Seder
Passover SederNati Shohat/Flash 90
A group of rabbis, including Rabbi Eliyahu Abergel, head of Jerusalem's rabbinical court, the Chief of Rabbi of Kiryat Gat Rabbi Shlomo Ben Hamo, and Rabbi Aharon Cohen of Yakir, have signed a halakhic ruling permitting the Passover Seder to be held in the presence of the “Zoom” program.

The ruling refers to the possibility of holding the Seder with the software being opened before the start of the holiday, so that elderly people who cannot be physically close to their family members due to the coronavirus epidemic can hold the Seder while seeing their family through the program.

The rabbis state in the ruling that there is no need to worry about the issue of operating the program, since it is launched before the start of the holiday.

Regarding the concern that they will be lenient on this issue on other holidays as well, the rabbis state that there is no place for such concerns since it is clear that these days are a time of emergency and the permit is only valid for an emergency.

"Therefore we are permitting, stressing that this is only for emergencies, and only for the purpose of this year’s Seder for those who need it. And just as they permit a non-dangerous patient to receive treatment on Shabbat so as to cure him of his illness, so is the case here," the rabbis wrote.


Since this went public, several of the signatories went on record to remove their support. The Rav of Yakir publicly came out saying he didn't sanction this. The chief rabbi has made his dissent heard.

In the words of chazal - עשה לך רב. But it seems this was either meant to be a private psak, or was made up. Either way, don't follow it blindly.

(And note: every original signatory was a Moroccan Rav, whom lechathila held that electricity is a issur d'rabbanan at most. This is not a klali peak.)

PS - I live in Itamar, which has a huge Moroccan population. When the psak paper hit WhatsApp this morning, everyone checked with their rabbanim, many of whom were listed on the paper. I didn't follow the full extent of the discussion, but the general consensus was "no." I can go back and get details if anyone is truly interested.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:20 pm
Disclaimer : MO here.

I speak to seniors every day. They are home alone. It's hard enough, day after day, when they DO have phone and TV. Seder night is family night, even for those who are not orthodox. And there is a 3-day chag this year!

So it doesn't seem surprising that compassionate Rabbanim have suggested a way to make them feel more included and less lonely. They won't be able to go to Shul. They won't be able to be guests. Or to host. Or, in some cases, to even leave their daled amos.

We live in exceptional times. Our Shuls are closed, for goodness sake, that proves how extreme the situation is! So if a (halachic) solution might be found - that perhaps stops them from violating halacha by putting on the TV, or calling someone, or Gd forbid becoming suicidal - it at least deserves consideration, no?!
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:55 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
We live in exceptional times. Our Shuls are closed, for goodness sake, that proves how extreme the situation is! So if a (halachic) solution might be found - that perhaps stops them from violating halacha by putting on the TV, or calling someone, or Gd forbid becoming suicidal - it at least deserves consideration, no?!


You are 100% right that these are exceptional times, and every halachic solution should be considered. Unfortunately, the proposed solution in this case is not a halachic solution and therefore should not be considered.
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saw50st8




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 4:48 pm
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
You are 100% right that these are exceptional times, and every halachic solution should be considered. Unfortunately, the proposed solution in this case is not a halachic solution and therefore should not be considered.


There are situations where this can be used. It's not a blanket no either. This isn't relevant for me so I am not asking my Rabbi.

I would actually recommend maybe sharing a webcam and put the video constantly streaming on a device (like a TV or monitor) so that it isn't turning on and off. But I'm not a posek so you have to talk to someone who understands technology and is a posek because many people do not understand both.

The Star-K has some exceptionally knowledgeable people. My husband has conversed with them on many different questions regarding our smart home. Most regular rabbonim do not understand technology to the level needed to give a psak.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 5:04 pm
“Further regarding the zoom for Passover Seder, I have now been sent retractions from the rabbanim that signed on it. Key words (translation) “Let me make it clear I was referring to a most extreme case, on verge of mental breakdown....it was not intended to be a ruling for the general public. It has been taken out of context.” - (Harav) Moshe Suissa”
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 5:05 pm
Personally, I think this whole thread should be removed, including the original text and link, so that no one reads just the beginning and thinks rabbanim have said it’s ok. This is something that, if you are considering, you must speak with YOUR OWN RABBI about.
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 6:15 pm
Add the OP I want to make a disclaimer. I would have never thought of this question in my own. But someone sent the link to me, I wanted to share and get opinions.

I would also hope that ppl would know by now to ask their own Rabbi and not rely on opinions they see on the internet. But since I have little faith, maybe I will edit the title further.

If the mod who changed it can contact me so I can tell them what I would like to change it to, without erasing everything, and they can decide if it's ok I'd appreciate that.
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seeker




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 8:11 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
Disclaimer : MO here.

I speak to seniors every day. They are home alone. It's hard enough, day after day, when they DO have phone and TV. Seder night is family night, even for those who are not orthodox. And there is a 3-day chag this year!

So it doesn't seem surprising that compassionate Rabbanim have suggested a way to make them feel more included and less lonely. They won't be able to go to Shul. They won't be able to be guests. Or to host. Or, in some cases, to even leave their daled amos.

We live in exceptional times. Our Shuls are closed, for goodness sake, that proves how extreme the situation is! So if a (halachic) solution might be found - that perhaps stops them from violating halacha by putting on the TV, or calling someone, or Gd forbid becoming suicidal - it at least deserves consideration, no?!

Yes, however it should be an individual consideration. It's not going to be allowable wholesale. I do think it is worth exploring options for someone who would be very alone and vulnerable. But there are going to be a lot of factors to weigh, both technological and halachic. Having people go all around the internet saying "the rabbis OK'd zoom on Pesach!" is irresponsible.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 9:00 pm
OT, but it's hitting home to me how hard a three day yom tov will be be for those who live alone. I can't even imagine it, my heart breaks for all of you...
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 25 2020, 10:11 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
OT, but it's hitting home to me how hard a three day yom tov will be be for those who live alone. I can't even imagine it, my heart breaks for all of you...


Try sending anyone you know who is alone a
friendly package before the chag. It could be an old but good book, a puzzle, anything. Just a "thinking of you, hope this helps us all get through this" gift. It's a huge spirit lift!

I've done chag and Shabbat alone. It was the most depressing time of my life. Just a little reminder that you're not alone, that someone actually cares about you, could make a huge difference.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Mar 26 2020, 10:52 am
Ema of 4 wrote:
“Further regarding the zoom for Passover Seder, I have now been sent retractions from the rabbanim that signed on it. Key words (translation) “Let me make it clear I was referring to a most extreme case, on verge of mental breakdown....it was not intended to be a ruling for the general public. It has been taken out of context.” - (Harav) Moshe Suissa”


R Heiniman said precisely this in the link I posted earlier
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