Of course it's the women's fault!!

yiddishmom

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 1:49 pm

Ok, everyone relax. Ignore the letter. Why are you taking it so personal?

Everyone should make their own cheshban hanefesh how they can improve THEMSELVES, and don't get busy telling others what to do it.

Don't be so mad at this letter alone, I've also seen women on this very website pointing fingers at others.

And FYI, I saw a letter that said that it's because men talk in shul. Are you ok with that letter?

sub

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 1:50 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If you can't commiserate, you're welcome to leave this thread. I guess you don't live in a community where whenever there's a tzara there's always kol koras against the women and their tzenuis.

You guessed wrong. There is nothing to commiserate. You don’t have to listen to them or agree with them. They are saying what they want, it doesn’t mean they are right. And if op would not have posted it, you would not have known about it. Ignore it, let it roll away. Don’t give it any power over you. Focus on the good things we yidden do for each other.

sub

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 1:53 pm

yiddishmom wrote:

Thank you.

amother

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 1:59 pm

yiddishmom wrote:

I'm not upset about this one letter per se. It's just maddening that every single time there's a tzara in klal yisroel, kol koras come out that the women need to strengthen their tzenuis. It's the long sheitels, and snoods, and hair sticking out, and long skirts, and black tights..... always the womens fault.

An no way, it is not ok to put a kol kora that it's because the men are talking in shul. It's in no one's place to say why this is happening, no one is god.
Everyone should do their own cheshban hanefesh and decide what hashem wants from them. Everyone should take care of themselves instead of pointing out other people's faults.

amother

Honeydew

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 2:08 pm

Where exactly was this kol koreh? Because nothing I have seen or read has mentioned anything of the sort, not a single statement from a mainstream rav.
You always have had your loonies, you cant give them any credence by paying attention or spreading their word.

amother

Papaya

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 2:31 pm

Wow op you’re being real nasty at a time like this to other posters.
I live in that kind of community.
YOU don’t have to DO what they say. Just ignore and move on like I do.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 2:31 pm

For every letter saying it's tzniyus and shaitles, there's another letter saying it's talking in shul, lashon hara, not prioritizing Torah learning, and anything else you can think of.

The bottom line is only Hashem knows why.

There are plenty of letters going around blaming men as well. Unless the letter was placed by Hashem himself, it's just someone pushing their own agenda. Let it go. Or try to work on whatever middah. Or not. That's between you and G-d.

amother

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 2:32 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

In a local community paper.

amother

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 2:37 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

Wow op you’re being real nasty at a time like this to other posters.
I live in that kind of community.
YOU don’t have to DO what they say. Just ignore and move on like I do.

Nasty? I'm allowed to vent. Sorry you don't like it.
After the Jersey City massacre, my MIL got a call from my brothers in law menahal that there will be an asifa for all women to talk about their tzenuis. My MIL answered him "how about making an asifa for all melamdim on how they're treating/mistreating their students and the menahalim for abusing their power?" The menahal didn't have what to answer and just hung up. My brother in law was tortured by his melamed.

sub

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:03 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

Wow op you’re being real nasty at a time like this to other posters.
I live in that kind of community.
YOU don’t have to DO what they say. Just ignore and move on like I do.

See this is my point. And she is Not Nasty. She posted something she saw. But posting these kind of things brings about negative feelings and reactions.

sub

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:04 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Kudos to her. Wonderful response

sub

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:07 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes, yes, yes.

amother

Papaya

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:08 pm

sub wrote:

Exactly my point. No one other than the local community knew about it. By posting it here it caused strife.

Exactly not everyone lives in your community and for those who do, they get these messages.

How you take these messages is different for every person not everyone reacts or thinks the same way.

sub

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:14 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Quoting because this says what I am trying to say.

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:27 pm

sub wrote:

Stop!!!! We are anxious and nervous enough without posting things that get us riled up and biting each other. There is no need to bring up more criticism on any part of am yisroel.
Think before you post! Is it a post that will help? Will it give a positive or negative vibe?

I agree.
I feel OP's annoyance. Maybe people who share those feelings can work on feeling compassion for those who have such a world view that they come up with an avlah that clearly applies to yenem. May Hashem grant them clarity and may they use their new kochos to bring about real positivity-filled change.

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:28 pm

sub wrote:

And tiny hats, and coloured socks sticking out Wink

As one mashgiach said, why are your wearing your sister's socks.
OTOH, as one mother said, let them have their outlet. Not quite tight pants.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Mar 25 2020, 3:43 pm

I understand op's need to post.
When there is a troubling phenomenon in your community, you try to bring it to light, not ignore it.
Staying silent in such cases is often agreeing. And then one can't be surprised when more asifas on women's tznius proliferate.