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Stop saying moshiach is coming
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giselle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 26 2020, 6:34 pm
Simple1 wrote:
My daughter's teacher said that erev pesach of the original yetzias mitzrayim no one could leave their homes...

And does it say somewhere that this will happen again when Mashiach comes? Can someone post a source? (For the record, I hope Mashiach comes tonight. I daven for it every single day. Not being cynical about him coming. Just don’t know that telling people “this is it” is helpful.)
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amother
Orange


 

Post Thu, Mar 26 2020, 6:39 pm
This thread is apikorsus mamesh and should be deleted. Just wow!! It's DEVASTATING each minute Moshiach is delayed. That is 7 Billion minutes of pain that Hashem feels infinitely Crying Please please have some rachmanus. It's an incredible opportunity now when life is so different than usual. Teshuva, Achdus and learn the halachos of Moshiach and Beis Hamikdosh. Ki lishuasicha kivinu KOL HAYOM
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mommy9




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 26 2020, 6:40 pm
giselle wrote:
And does it say somewhere that this will happen again when Mashiach comes? Can someone post a source? (For the record, I hope Mashiach comes tonight. I daven for it every single day. Not being cynical about him coming. Just don’t know that telling people “this is it” is helpful.)

Baal haturim on that posuk
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giselle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 26 2020, 6:50 pm
mommy9 wrote:
Baal haturim on that posuk

Thank you! Will check it out.
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Scotty




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 26 2020, 6:51 pm
Quote:
And does it say somewhere that this will happen again when Mashiach comes? Can someone post a source? (For the record, I hope Mashiach comes tonight. I daven for it every single day. Not being cynical about him coming. Just don’t know that telling people “this is it” is helpful.)


Our Rav just gave a speech about this on motsei Shabbos for the women of our shul, I have the recording and can check for you exactly but I believe the Baal Haturim is citing the mentions of the word "V'achluhu" in the Torah, most of which refer to the Korban Pesach and one of which refers to the final redemption - and he then compares the first geula to the last, that in both we will be confined to our homes. There's a verse in Yeshaya referring to this (I was hanging up laundry at the time, so my notes only roughly translate it as 'go into your homes and close your doors and wait until the storm passes' but it's only rough) If you want the exact citation I can listen to the whatsapp recording and get you the chapter and verse number, just lmk.

This whole 'moshiach' thing can be difficult to accept - we're hardwired to be defensive about it BECAUSE it's been taking so long for him to arrive and it hurts so much when we build ourselves up and then he hasn't arrived yet. Couple that with the Yetzer hara rubbing his greasy hands together and yeah, it's a knee-jerk topic.

BUT.

Remember, there have been many periods in Jewish history where moshiach COULD have come and nearly did, but we weren't zoche. Maybe post-Holocaust was one of those times. We can only pray that we get to be in that time when he does break through. So yes, I don't tell my kids, "Oh moshiach is coming!" I tell them, "We've waited so long! For thousands of years! We're coming close! Maybe THIS IS IT!!!! Guys, HE MIGHT COME IN OUR LIFETIMES!!! We don't know. I'm only davening to Hashem. This whole Covid19 thing is teaching me that He is in charge. So let's ask Him to bring Moshiach!"

(My fil just passed away and my kids keep on saying 'moshiach is never coming! It's taking so long for us to see zeidy again' all the time, so this is a hot topic in our house.)
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giselle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 26 2020, 6:55 pm
That’s very interesting. And I agree with you that things like this are possibly an opportunity (or more accurately, a reminder) for us to make ourselves worthy of mashiach.
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avrahamama




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 26 2020, 6:59 pm
Of course he is coming! He is coming! No matter what he is coming. Because of this. In spite of this. Who cares!?????!?!?! You're so concerned about false hope!?!? what does that even mean???? Every Seder night I start excited and at the end of every Pesach I'm grateful that I made another year and heartbroken that he didnt come. There are people more committed that me that do tikun chatzot nightly and are heartbroken and disappointed for the galut daily. No rabbi said that he is Mashiach. Just that it must be that he is on his way.

We dont have to let every single Jew that we don't agree with get under your skin. We don't have to pick fights.

You're right. I'm right. We're all wrong. Who cares.

I love you. I really love you. You're a part of me. I. You and you are me and we are all a part of HKBH. And I love you all. I don't want to be right. I don't want to be wrong. I just want to be together.

Don't you get it? Who even cares anymore? Who is right?

On RH and YK the Shofar doesn't go up to HKBH if anyone in the kehilla has a grudge or whatever against another person. So I look around my shul and I find at least one thing to love about everysingle person in sight.

Don't worry about what they are saying. They want mashiach! God bless them! Now find something to love about them and bzh let's build the zchut for the final shofar blasts. Please pretty pretty pretty please. I'm begging you neshama to neshama.

I want to see my uncle again. I want to see him in his bigdei kehuna. I want to bask in the shechina. I want to give nachat. I want my children to have a chuppah where there is no broken glass. I want to deliver babies the same way a chicken lays eggs.

I want to fully understand and see the unity that HKBH knows we are capable of.
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fortunate123




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 26 2020, 11:45 pm
If this is just a vent, I hear you and yes it can be frustrating and emotionally taxing, as a nation, to repeatedly get our hopes up in vain.

If this is a philosophical discussion, I have one word for you: Wait.

What do I mean by that? Surely you are aware of the last of the 13 principles of faith - “I await his coming every day even if he may tarry”. Now it doesn’t say I hope for his coming or I pray for his coming.

What’s the difference?

You wait for the train. You wait for the doctor in the waiting room. You wait your turn in line. You wait for your package to arrive on the guaranteed date. All these are GIVEN. You are SURE they are coming. So you wait.

You aren’t waiting for the vaccine to Covid-19. But you are definitely hoping and praying for it. You aren’t waiting to win the lottery but you certainly wish and hope you would. You aren’t waiting for compliments when you wear a new outfit or pair of shoes but you secretly hope you’ll get at least one.

Unless you are a bit neurotic you aren’t waiting for anything unless you really know for sure it’s coming. Which makes this last one of the 13 principles of faith extremely challenging to truly observe in its literal sense.

Are we all on the level of observing it in it’s true definition- of literally waiting? No, many of us aren’t. But it’s a level. It’s a leap of faith.

Don’t tell people to stop. Don’t tell them not to take that leap. If they can take the leap and be on that level, Gd bless them. They’ve really done it. They defied human nature by treating belief as reality.

Maybe you will too one day.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 12:02 am
The question is, why only respond to negative things by saying Mashiach is coming? Of course Mashiach is coming. Haven't you seen Jews returning to Israel from all corners of the earth? Haven't you seen old people with canes and boys and girls playing in the streets of Yerushalayim? Plans for expanding train lines take into account that there will be olei regel needing transportation to the Old City.

But no, posters here only talk about Mashiach when bad things happen. That makes me think it's not true anticipation, but a coping mechanism. And if it doesn't pan out, they are going to feel worse than when they started. Which is probably not a good result.
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 12:28 am
People are following the lead of the Rabbanim. It's not just the simple "emuna peshuta " people talking about Moshiach.

Every time we have a world-wide crisis, it's natural to talk about Moshiach. Hashem sends these to give us a message. If we utilize the message to turn inward and beg Hashem for Moshiach and do teshuva, this could be it!!!

Rav Nissel said very poignaniantly that the Klausenberger Rebbe never cried during the holocaust. Only when he saw the Americans coming to liberate them did he start crying. He was asked why, and he said, "All along, I was SURE this will end with Moshiach saving us. But instead the Amerocans are here..."
He quoted Rav Shlomo Wolbe who said when things are bad, dont cry for things to go back to normal. Cry for Moshiach! That should be the new normal.

So yes, I agree with the posters that we should have Moshiach on our minds. Our actions should reflect that belief in his imminent arrival, and that will be the zchus we need to actually make it happen.
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 12:32 am
octopus wrote:
People have to learn from Jewish history. Whenever there was hype of a false mashiach, there was a tremendous weakening spiritually in klal yisrael. Stop being nivei sheker. We always wait for mashiach. We also need to do teshuva! But the hype is misplaced spirituality. This is a tremendous eis tzara. Daven and do teshuva. This is the takeaway.


There is NO FALSE MOSHIACH here. There's no Shabbatai Tzvi or Bar Kochva.
There is Rav Chaim who is telling us to do teshuva. There are rabbonim and gedolim telling us not to squander this opportunity to make us better people. That is what is needed to bring Moshiach.
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ddmom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 3:11 am
giselle wrote:
What are the unique features?

As far as I know, it's the first time that there is a mageifa that affects jews everywhere in the world regardless of where they live, at the same time..
During the holocaust the American jews were not affected much.
Jews in America are in exactly the same matzav as jews in Israel or Europe right now!!
This only way to strengthen our enuna that "mashiach is coming" is to mention he's coming.
If we never spoke about it we wouldn't actively be waiting for him?
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moonstone




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 3:12 am
Thank you to the OP of this thread, I'm also sick of reading Mashiach is coming! Mashiach is coming! It's almost as annoying as the always-popular "Remember, this is all Hashem's plan!"
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 3:17 am
I think you have it all wrong
I don't believe moshiach is coming as a coping mechanism or so that this will end. It is just so end of world, against all nature, natural life being suspended globally that its clear to me Hashem is shaking things up to prepare the world mentally to accept moshiach arrival.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 3:43 am
trixx wrote:
I think you have it all wrong
I don't believe moshiach is coming as a coping mechanism or so that this will end. It is just so end of world, against all nature, natural life being suspended globally that its clear to me Hashem is shaking things up to prepare the world mentally to accept moshiach arrival.


But plagues are totally natural. Everyone before the modern era lived (or didn't live) through this sort of thing. Whether it affected the whole world at once or in stages is irrelevant.

Historically, plagues have not led to an increased adherence to traditional religious beliefs. If anything, people move away from religion when affected by plague.

It would be lovely if you were right, but it would be lovelier still if we could appreciate Hashem through the קול דממה דקה rather than looking for Him only in disasters.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 4:36 am
amother [ Orange ] wrote:
We anticipate Moshiach every day and its crushing every day that passes without his arrival. It is NOT wrong to say Moshiach is coming now. It is amazingly good and beautiful to see how close we truly are. It's sad that only now we have Moshiach on our minds that should be constant. Basic Beiur Tefilah darling. Banging head Banging head Banging head Banging head


I agree. It doesn't have to be either/or.

You can daven for and expect Moshiach every day, but the other very important lesson is to not give up hope just because he didn't show up when you wanted him to. I think that this is not emphasized enough.

Yidden marched into the gas chambers singing that Moshiach would come that very second. I always found that incredibly inspiring. I also know that many of that generation lost their faith because Moshiach. We need to be very careful of that, and include it in our chinuch.
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 5:06 am
We don't know anything. But what if? If we would talk about it and everyone would believe with all his heart and do teshuva, and it is nissan where it's written that we will be released in this month, then HE COULD COME. A post saying like this is counterproductive and kefira. in history when there was bad times,maybe he would have come if only everyone would believe????? I believe with all my heart he is coming. Don't tell me otherwise.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 5:16 am
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
We don't know anything. But what if? If we would talk about it and everyone would believe with all his heart and do teshuva, and it is nissan where it's written that we will be released in this month, then HE COULD COME. A post saying like this is counterproductive and kefira. in history when there was bad times,maybe he would have come if only everyone would believe????? I believe with all my heart he is coming. Don't tell me otherwise.


Of course he COULD. That's not the point. The point is that there are people insisting that this plague means Mashiach is coming imminently. They're making predictions. And if Mashiach doesn't appear, they'll just say we weren't good enough.

Why can't people be motivated to turn to Hashem when they see the wonderful good things that He does? Why insist on bad things? Why not look at vaccines and the millions of lives saved and say, look, we're defeating death, Mashiach is coming.

Because these declarations aren't really about Mashiach. They are about wanting answers when things are bad.
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Genius




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 6:03 am
Wonder if there really are negative consequences to saying he’s coming. I understand it makes you feel unsettled and goes on your nerves, but I don’t remember anyone having PTSD because everyone was saying he’s coming and he did not.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 6:21 am
And what will a post Coronavirus world without Moshiach look like, exactly? Recession and ruined global economy, anger and blame toward politicians and other countries, the fallout between nations over this catastrophe, poverty and job loss and lack of goods to purchase, fear of the virus returning and another similar experience, fear of the next novel virus outbreak, race to create yet another mandatory vaccine (yes I vaccinate but that doesn't mean I love loading my kids up with more and more vaccines!)...I dont know about you, but should there be another time period of "normal" before Moshiach's arrival, it sounds like a miserable "normal." We dont just want Moshiach because we love Hashem and want the Bais Hamikdosh - we NEED Moshiach! I am so afraid a period of "normal" will return and that period will in itself be ikvese d'moshicha! And more traumatic than all this quarantine stuff....I just want this virus to be IT, just send him already!
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