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Where is all the money??!
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amother
Tan


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 3:03 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
I'm also wondering the same thing. Are people actually losing money or not making these weeks. If they are not paying workers then they don't have to meet payroll. Are businesses actually completely shut down. I see that many are now online. How much loss is it for business owners.


The company where I work is completely shut down. It's not something that can be an online business. For now we are still getting paid, but my boss isn't sure how long that can continue. He may lay us all off as of next week, it's a very difficult decision for him to make. I'll probably have to go on unemployment.

My husband's employer also had to close, and it's also not transferable to online. Unfortunately that company wasn't doing as well financially even before this, and so he was laid off a week ago.

And so we're not spending money because we don't know what will be long term and we need to save as much as possible.

The good news is that I'm spending quality time with my kids and I have lots of time to clean for Pesach, much more than most years.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 3:06 pm
One thing that banks could do would be to suspend all loan payments for the next 3-6 months or as long as it needs. Then at least people wont be forced into foreclosure or bankruptcy and can use all their money towards essential goods and services.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 3:29 pm
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
One thing that banks could do would be to suspend all loan payments for the next 3-6 months or as long as it needs. Then at least people wont be forced into foreclosure or bankruptcy and can use all their money towards essential goods and services.


Are you kidding? Do they also get to suspend all their obligations likeinterest, rent, and salaries and benefits for their employees? They need the loan payments. Your idea is crazy.

Right now they may give forbearance in return for a personal guarantee.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 3:35 pm
The problem is that money is only a trading medium for goods and services, all of which are now very limited in supply.
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imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 4:18 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
also- in this case- that means that people who are not paying tuition because they feel gypped since they are not receiving services- even if they have the money to pay- are basically hurting their own selves. because by not circulating the money forward to the schools, the schools cannot send it forward to the teachers, who then cannot buy goods, and cannot support the businesses of these people who refuse to pay tuition.
is that correct?


Um, what? Who's not paying tuition? Do you know how tuition works? You have to give it all to them IN ADVANCE. They have all the checks for this exact scenario.
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happy12




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 4:35 pm
Under my mattress Smile Smile
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 4:46 pm
we paid our tuition already. But us not paying tuition to our private school wouldn't affect my husband's job at a secular company. So that logic doesn't work. That doesn't mean we shouldn't pay. I believe halachically we are obligated to pay.
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 4:49 pm
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
One thing that banks could do would be to suspend all loan payments for the next 3-6 months or as long as it needs. Then at least people wont be forced into foreclosure or bankruptcy and can use all their money towards essential goods and services.


This is what is happening where I live (Canada). Anyone can call their bank and defer their mortgage or other loans for 6 months. Ottawa negotiated with the banks.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 4:54 pm
imorethanamother wrote:
Um, what? Who's not paying tuition? Do you know how tuition works? You have to give it all to them IN ADVANCE. They have all the checks for this exact scenario.

Well that’s doubtful that it’s for this exact scenario.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Fri, Mar 27 2020, 5:11 pm
in nyc you do not have to pay the rent for three months
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amother
Gray


 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 1:23 pm
Money represents perceived value. If everyone agrees that item X is worth $Y then that's the price. But if there's a panic, and everyone is selling item X, its value goes down. The pie just gets smaller. That's what's happening with the stock market, so all of a sudden, people have seen their net worth decrease by 20 percent. In that case, they may be a lot less likely to make other purchases, which decreases the price of other goods. The people who make those goods lose their jobs, so they have less money to spend buying goods and services. So prices go down. And so on.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 1:39 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
so money is not money but rather an exchange of services ?
that would make sense to me if money was all a theoretical numbers that exchange hands , numbers that go up on a bank account statement, or numbers that go down.

but practically - when it comes to actual hard cash . where is all the cash?

It's not that money isn't physical at all.

Let's say I owe my friend Ariella 50 shekels. I can't pay her until Tal, my student, pays me 50 shekels for tutoring. He can't pay me until his friend Shimon coughs up the 50 shekels he owes him for gas. Shimon wants to pay Tal, but he's still waiting for his neighbor Miri to pay him 50 shekels she owes for va'ad bayit. Miri's planning to give him that money as soon as her friend pays her back for a lunch they had last week.

Five people (Miri's friend, Miri, Shimon, Tal, and me) all owe 50 shekels. So how much money is missing?

50 shekels.

If we do the math we get 250 shekels total debt, but really it's all just the same 50 shekels. If Miri's friend would pay her, the same 50 shekels could go from hand to hand all the way to Ariella.

Same here. There's a huge amount of money "missing," but what's really happening is that a relatively small amount of money isn't moving. If stores would reopen, people would buy things there, and then the managers could pay the workers, who could pay tuition, and then the teachers would have money, so they could buy things at the stores... etc.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 1:44 pm
Yep...
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 2:06 pm
OP, you answered your own question.

Fewer people are working; work and productivity generates value. When a huge percentage of the world stops working, there is less value being generated, and thus less money.

Also, banks aren't too keen to lend if the probability of being paid back shrinks, and without lending, the economy grinds to a halt.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 2:10 pm
Oh come now, everyone knows that Jews control all the banks! Hiding (And now we own all the toilet paper, mwuah ha ha ha!)

But seriously, kids need to eat, feet keep growing so new shoes need to be bought, landlords still want to be paid because their kids need to eat, and on and on. Living expenses don't stop just because the economy crashes.

You can ask your landlord not to charge you rent for a couple of months, but you can't ask a family with 10 kids not to eat for a couple of months. As it is, I'm scraping the bottom of my freezer for leftovers.
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amother
Orange


 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 2:41 pm
I hope this passes soon. A regular month we are left with little over 1000 shekels after paying rent. Now my dh isn't getting paid and he can't get from the government because he is working for less than a year. We have no savings either. G-d knows how we will pay our bills coming weeks Surprised
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 4:58 pm
amother [ Orange ] wrote:
I hope this passes soon. A regular month we are left with little over 1000 shekels after paying rent. Now my dh isn't getting paid and he can't get from the government because he is working for less than a year. We have no savings either. G-d knows how we will pay our bills coming weeks Surprised

In a lot of areas grocery stores and other big chains are desperately looking for delivery workers (both drivers and people to put together orders). The pay isn't great (usually like 30-35 shekels an hour), but it might be a way to bring in some money in the meantime.

(I looked into this seriously before I was told I'm not on unpaid leave yet)

Don't be shy about reaching out to anyone who can help, also.
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 5:22 pm
Was it money people were spending or credit? The problem is most people are living beyond their means with private school tuition, housing costs, making this and that Yom Tov, simchonim, sheitels, and etc. Living standards in both Modern Orthodox and Haredi society are unsustainable, and reality hits home once the economic situation changes.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 6:38 pm
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
Was it money people were spending or credit? The problem is most people are living beyond their means with private school tuition, housing costs, making this and that Yom Tov, simchonim, sheitels, and etc. Living standards in both Modern Orthodox and Haredi society are unsustainable, and reality hits home once the economic situation changes.

Even if people aren't living on credit, they rely on a steady income. If people are being laid off, forced to take paycuts, or losing business income, they will curtail their spending.

This is true for all people, not just Jews.
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happy12




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 28 2020, 8:50 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
in nyc you do not have to pay the rent for three months

Says who??
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