Why is a respectable Rav in BP allowing Minyan to be open?

amother

Rose

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 5:14 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

All roshei yeshivos and admorim assured minyanim. Who is greater than them to just defy them?

The people talking Lh. And not able to do something. Can you do something about it ? No. will you Lh help?Definitely not. Dh and me also home for 2weeks already. To help a problem with LH on public forum is never ok.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 11:50 am

Why are you considered a rotzeiach? They aren’t killing other innocent ppl, if someone chooses to come to shul that means that they are aware and choose to be exposed. And yes, there are ppl who go to shul and don’t leave their house besides for that, including grocery shopping.
And obviously not “all admorimand rabanim” assured it if there are rabanim that still have their shuls open.

amother

Ginger

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 11:52 am

Rav Chain Kanievsky has now assured it. He has also said it is permitted to tell the authorities if a shul is continuing to have minyanim. Or a group of a private minyan.

cnc

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 11:53 am

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

So they come home- expose their entire family including their married children. Their married children then go to their in laws and the cycle continues.

Rav Chaim Kanievsky gave a psak that minyan is forbidden .
The NYC mayor made a law that places of worship may not be open.

Dina dmalchusa Dina.

If we don’t listen to our Gedolim and our govt officials , then who do we listen to to? Besides for our misguided voices in our heads .

WhatFor

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:01 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

First of all, since when is "the person knew" a defense to being a rotzeach? It's assur to risk your own health, and it's assur to help someone else risk their health.

Second, if that person gets sick because they chose to ignore doctors, local government laws, and gedolei hador, then they require medical care, are they not going to go to a hospital? If there's only one ventilator and it goes to them instead of someone else, because they're otherwise more healthy, are they not culpable for taking away a ventilator that could have been available?

If they go home and pass it to someone else who gets sick, or is they pass it to someone who passes it to a third party who gets sick, are they not responsible for that either?

It's really simple. Stop being selfish and stay home.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:11 pm

I’m not sure that I disagree with all of you, but I think calling someone a rotzeach is a very severe statement. And R’ Chaim assured minyanim in bnei brak, not all over,

amother

Salmon

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:17 pm

In our community, the yeshivish and MO rabbis have agreed there should be no more minyanim of any kind and the shuls are closed. Yet a group of people tried to have a house minyan this past Shabbos. I hope they didn't succeed. People think they are too frum to listen to their own rabbis.

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 4:41 pm

Anyone going to a minyan besides bot listening to gedolim and government they r making a huge chillul Hashem! What a disgrace! Everyone is looking at those that r not abiding the guidelines, this will only cause more sinas chinam and anti semitism!
Start listening to the rabbanim and authorities!
Dont try outsmartong the gedolim and government!
Daven at home and that will bring more bracha and ultimately a kiddush Hashem!
And IYH when we r allowed to go back for minyanim everyone should start being so machmir about it, but dont be selfish now!
Dont cuz a chillul Hashem cuz u think ure so holy Davening with a minyan!
What a shame Sad

amother

Puce

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 5:38 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.....7/amp

chestnut

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 5:58 pm

gittylove wrote:

Exactly I was in noway saying that minyan is ok now. I was just stating facts. I got a cdc card today saying groups up to 10 is okay.

It could be elsewhere in the country, but not in New York State, and most definitely not in NYC.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:03 pm

Why is it more retzicha to daven with 10 people outside, than to shop with 10 people in a small grocery? Yeah, I know you've got to eat, but that doesn't make a grocery less risky.

(and I really don't think that R' Chaim K. is davening without a minyan.)

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:05 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I’m not sure that I disagree with all of you, but I think calling someone a rotzeach is a very severe statement. And R’ Chaim assured minyanim in bnei brak, not all over,

Not just bnei brak AND he said everyone MUST listen to the ministry of health.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:07 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Are you serious? Right now any good rav is most definitely davening alone. And once a rav gives a ruling, I eould hope he himself keeps to that ruling, otherwise all hell will literally break loose.

Mommyg8

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:14 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Are you serious? Right now any good rav is most definitely davening alone. And once a rav gives a ruling, I eould hope he himself keeps to that ruling, otherwise all hell will literally break loose.

I don't know how to post a picture but this is a link: R Gershon Edelshtein davening alone.

https://www.thelakewoodscoop.c......html

Rav Edelstein is considered one of the gedolim today.

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:15 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

10 in a grocery, with mask, quickly do shopping and walk out.
10 davening out loud for a minimum of 25 minutes, coughing , spitting, sniffling, no mask
And they are not outside, they are going indoors.
If they keep exactly 10 men 6 feet away, and wipe down everything after minyan then maybe it would be feasible, but they are not. I see men and boys of all ages entering shuls.

lavenderchimes

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:16 pm

It always bothers me that we have these discussions without anyone citing sources, so I did a bit of research:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/......page
"As of 8 p.m. on Sunday, March 22, every New Yorker must stay at home from work, unless they are an essential worker. Exemptions from the order will include shipping, media, warehousing, grocery and food production, pharmacies, health care providers, utilities, banks and related financial institutions.

All non-essential businesses that are normally open to the public must remain closed. Bars and restaurants may provide takeout.

Also, all non-essential gatherings of any size for any reason are banned.

For more information on this executive order from the Governor, visit the NYS Department of Health website."

https://www.governor.ny.gov/ne.....order

1. Effective at 8PM on Sunday, March 22, all non-essential businesses statewide will be closed;
2. Non-essential gatherings of individuals of any size for any reason (e.g. parties, celebrations or other social events) are canceled or postponed at this time;
3. Any concentration of individuals outside their home must be limited to workers providing essential services and social distancing should be practiced;
4. When in public individuals must practice social distancing of at least six feet from others;
5. Businesses and entities that provide other essential services must implement rules that help facilitate social distancing of at least six feet;
6. Individuals should limit outdoor recreational activities to non-contact and avoid activities where they come in close contact with other people;
7. Individuals should limit use of public transportation to when absolutely necessary and should limit potential exposure by spacing out at least six feet from other riders;
8. Sick individuals should not leave their home unless to receive medical care and only after a telehealth visit to determine if leaving the home is in the best interest of their health;
9. Young people should also practice social distancing and avoid contact with vulnerable populations; and
10. Use precautionary sanitizer practices such as using isopropyl alcohol wipes.

None of this specifically discussed religious gatherings, so I googled "religious gatherings nyc coronavirus":

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-bo.....tions
"Mayor Bill de Blasio on Friday warned New Yorkers and religious institutions that they could soon be hit with fines as high as $500 if they ignore social distancing guidelines — and he identified Sunday, April 5, as the date the city could begin running out of critical medical resources."

In conclusion, although I think all souls should close (ours had it's last minyan two weeks ago,) I can see the argument that ravening with a minyan is "essential," and I have not found any evidence from any official government sources that shuls in NYC are not allowed to hold a minyan as long as they comply with social distancing guidelines. (Granted, I didn't spend a ton of time searching, so feel free to post if you find anything I missed!). Additionally, people will do what they want, and you can't stop them. In the secular world, there was a girl who licked a public toilet seat and posted in on social media. And we know that roughly half of the country doesn't even believe that Covid-19 is a serious problem. So, are we really surprised that some Rabbonim are still allowing services or that some people are still listening to their Rav? Awful - yes. Shocking - not really.

Be well and wash your hands<3

amother

Apricot

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:26 pm

amother

Apricot

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:29 pm

cnc wrote:

Can you post link or letter?

mommy2379

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:41 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

Can you post link or letter?

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Mar 29 2020, 6:42 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

Can you post link or letter?

Rav Chaim’s PR page is down. I’ll post a link when it’s back up