Feeling judged about working FT corporate job

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Forum -> Working Women

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amother

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 12:59 pm

I just spoke with our rabbi and I'm a little frustrated and I feel alienated.

We recently donated what to us was a significant amount of maaser we needed to catch up on and I quickly filled out the information on the online form based on the card information I knew off-hand (my own) but it makes no difference because hello we're both joint holders on the account and we both work. When the tax receipt came, it came to my husband not me which I thought was a little strange because I had put my email on the form along with my name, card etc. This means someone looked at my email address, looked at my name, identified who I was and decided to send the receipt to my husband's email instead of me which I think is just weird.

I just spoke with the rabbi about something else separate but parnassah related and in the process he made certain accusations and I ended up feeling just icky and sized-up and judged. I was accused of having selfish motives which also makes me feel honestly more misunderstood than anything else. I think people in very traditional frum communities have trouble relating to a woman who works a solid corporate job. I am only human but I honestly try not to let anything get to my ego. I'm not ever on any kind of power trip and I do try to be dan l'chaf z'chus. It's just a different culture and I'm also a BT so it's hard for me to understand.

I also want to just say I have an immense amount of hakaras hatov to HKBH, my rabbeim, communities, and yidden everywhere and I'm trying to be constructive about next steps.

I am thinking about communicating some soft version of my feelings to the rabbi but I'm not sure if this is advisable and if so, how. Any advice?

amother

Plum

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 1:12 pm

I was just speaking to my aunt about this the other day. It's very important for one to have a Rav they feel comfortable with. I'm lucky to have gotten a good recommendation and it worked out, but sometimes people have to change their Rav 7 years into the relationship, or even 20+ years if circumstances change. This doesn't reflect negatively on the Rav or the disciple, it just means it's not a great match anymore.
Regarding a solid FT corporate job and its respect in the community...I was in the same boat. I had a pretty fantastic, albeit very full time job. After starting my family and doing the constant juggle/ dance between being a full time worker and being an available mom, and going nuts every Yom Tov and times like that, I very reluctantly made the decision to leave the job.
All I kept hearing from grandparents/ aunts and friends is how THANK GOODNESS IM NOT AT THAT CRAZY JOB. I felt fulfilled there, I was productive, I was happy but that didn't matter. And when I found a part time job that worked better with my family schedule it was all about "Baruch Hashem you can now be a mother to your kids" like yeah right, I was a mom before too, sometimes being a mom IS the struggle of maintaining that balance.
Regarding the tax receipt, I'd call the non profit you donated to and ask the office about it, if the donation was made in one name why the receipt was made out to another. Would leave me with a bad taste too.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 1:17 pm

I want to address the email part first.
Have you ever donated to them before?
I document donations-for a small organization & each donor has a profile.
So even if they give it from a different bank account or. Are number, if their in the system it automatically gets out u dear the original profile, & the receipt would automatically go to the address on the profile unless otherwise specified.
(I personally inpuT the women’s name first when it’s a couple, but it’s personal preference 😂)

Re the corporate world... I work full time, too, in the corporate world.
I don’t spend time thinking how other view me or judge me I’m too busy trying to live my life.
I’m sorry your feel judged, also I think sometimes men have trouble relating to women, period.

Chayalle

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 1:21 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think people in very traditional frum communities have trouble relating to a woman who works a solid corporate job.

I think this is true of some people. I have encountered this as well, here and there. I have met some people who have, how to say this, less than ideal respect for women, too.

Like another mother posted, I stick to speaking to those who understand and respect me. If I would be speaking to a Rav and feel that I'm not understood or respected, that would not be a Rav I would seek advice from again.

gibberish

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 1:30 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

I agree, this is most likely what happened with the email. I don't think it's a man/woman thing at all.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 1:46 pm

To preface, I'm a mom of young kids working FT in health care. I'm also a person who feels a strong need to be understood.
My suggestion is not to write to the rov now. There's too much stress in the air. You definitely don't want to write something you might regret in the future.

amother

Emerald

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 2:10 pm

Wouldn't bother communicating your feelings to the Rabbi unless it's in the context of "By the way, since our last discussion, I decided I need to search out a more fitting Rabbi shidduch because of..."

In reality though, whats the point? It will just mire you in more emotional turmoil and make you second guess yourself and feel bad about yourself. Sounds like you have to overlook how the Rabbi made you feel and really do need another spiritual guide and mentor.

And I agree. Could be that it was not intentional to specifically send your DH the receipt.

I am FT and also in healthcare. I don't really care when certain community members/people refer to me as Mrs Husband's Name. I understand why they do it but plenty of people also refer to me by my professional title or my own name. It is what it is.

OOTforlife

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 2:32 pm

Is your rabbi generally a judgy and presumptuous person? Or is he usually a modest, open-minded person capable of understanding nuance and distinction?

If he usually falls into the second category, and this is the first time you've had an issue with him making unwarranted assumptions or projecting certain prejudices, I think it's worth trying to preserve the relationship and therefore to discuss this with him.

As for how to discuss, it's hard to say without specifics. But writing your thoughts out for yourself is always a good start. I like to discuss things with my husband also.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 2:54 pm

Sorry. I know how frustrating it can be. I'm also coming from a very traditional place and working f/t (and out-earning DH). As for rav, I agree with the others. You need someone that gets you 100%. However, I wouldnt make the assumption that this rav doesn't. Depending on your relationship, I'd shmooze it out.
Regarding the email, it's weird. Sounds like it was a mistake, but it could be that not.
I had a somewhat similar experience with lawyers office, not by email, but by phone. It was somewhat ridiculous because I was totally taking care of the project, and while my husband was somewhat involved he wasn't running the ship (nor did he want to). I chalked it up to their preconceived notions about my community... And, instead of getting mad, I felt smug. Like Ha, I broke the stereotype.
Same for tuition/administrative office for kids schools. My cell phone is best point of contact, but often when they call, they assume its DH and sound confused that its a woman picking up the phone. I allow myself to get a kick out of it too, instead of getting upset.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 5:16 pm

Our rav's wife, the rebbetzin, has a corporate job so of course he is very understanding about it. I will echo the other posters who said not to say anything now during this stressful time and to reconsider trusting him as your rav.

Fox

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 5:38 pm

I'm more concerned that your rav accused you of having selfish motives. This, more than anyone's attitude toward your job, is a red flag that the relationship is not helpful.

Just like the relationship with a therapist, a lot of the benefit is in having a kesher with a rav -- as you say, someone who "gets" you. That doesn't mean that you'll always want to hear what he has to say or agree with it, but if you feel he's speaking an entirely different language, then it's not going to be productive for you.

But before rav-shopping, consider his comments in the context of the larger relationship. Has he assumed your motivations in the past, or was this a unique experience? Is he generally respectful or do you feel like he doesn't like you all that much? All of us word things badly from time to time, and right now is so stressful for everyone that many people don't have the patience to think through how to best communicate.

As for people disapproving of your job in general? Yes. They do.

They would also disapprove if you worked part-time stuffing envelopes ("You'd think she could find a better job to help her family!")

They would disapprove if you worked full-time as a principal of a girls' school ("You know, she does a lot for the klal, but you have to wonder if her children suffer as a result.")

They would disapprove if you had your own successful business ("She's been very successful, but she's still taking calls at 8 p.m. You know her family has to suffer.")

They would disapprove if you didn't have an outside job at all ("I don't know what she does all day. it's not like her house is spotless.")

People who are critical of others are . . . critical of others. It's just their hobby. Do what works best for you and your family and if they get really aggressive about it, suggest stamp collecting.

saw50st8

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 6:24 pm

OP, from a practical perspective they should fill out the tax form in the name of the person on the form. Some people file taxes separately from their spouse for various reasons (our accountant looks at our taxes each year and decides which was is most beneficial).

I'm sorry that you are feeling disrespected. I would definitely broach your Rabbi and ask for some clarification.

Cookiegirl

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 6:29 pm

Not sure if this will help to put things in perspective, or give you another approach to processing this question, but speaking as someone with an interesting corporate career history, I truly believe that many, if not all, of the judgmental critics are actually just jealous, and this is how they make themselves feel better.

amother

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 9:32 pm

Fox wrote:

This is amazing!!! I couldn’t help but have a snarky smile on my face reading these snippets. It’s absolutely true what you say.

Thanks all for your input. I wasn’t getting notifications and just caught up on them all now. The rabbi has a great relationship with my husband and gives good advice as it pertains to him. For all other matters we go to another Rav who is very unbiased and I will go to this Rav for my own questions as well. I’ve determined I will take the good and forget everything else that’s not helpful. It’s worth having his advice it as it pertains to very specific matters and he doesn’t seem like the type to understand or “be enlightened” here so it is what it is. I think this was the first time I felt truly stigmatized or treated differently because of my career choices and that was kind of a rude awakening because these career choices have allowed me to be supportive of my family and even able to give some to our community. It still rubs me the wrong way when I think of the conversation but I guess Right now especially, we’re learning now how little we truly can control. Can’t control other people that’s for sure.

I talked to DH about this by the way and he is supportive and empathetic which also made me feel better. While he is close with the rabbi they don’t hold all the same views.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 9:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That’s great!

Also, I think there’s a myth that you have to have one rabbi you go to for EVERYTHING, and hold the same views on every topic.
It’s ok.

I’m glad your spirits are up!

amother

Cerise

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:40 pm

I can totally relate. I am a doctor and my children’s schools make a point of addressing me as “Mrs”. My husband is also BT and I do feel that we are looked down upon because we are not a FFB kollel family. They are quite happy to get our full tuition though! I’ve learned to get over it. They can judge all they want but ask yourself “Whose judgement really matters?” I work to pay tuition so that my children can receive the Torah education that I did not get. I am grateful that I can do that.

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