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Dr Zelenko - are his meds really working?
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chmom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 05 2020, 4:13 pm
crust wrote:
I knew the truth will come out at some point. So, this is about what they learned in holy medical school? And he is coloring out of the line?

Were all the doctors taught how to handle Covid 19?
Let's hear what experiences they have with this virus and how they are helping people stay alive.

Dr. Zelenko is an out of the box thinker. All straightforward doctors will have an issue with his confidence.

Say it.

Why the disdain? If you think we learn nothing of value in medical school you have the Choice to to not consult any medical professionals in case of illness or accident.
And doctors just prescribing medication off label without any good evidence on a hunch is never a good idea.
What if we do more harm then good? What then? There is NO GOOD EVIDENCE AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
Do you not think every one of us on the front lines wants their patients to get better? Do you really think we wouldn’t want to give them something to prevent illness and death?
I really Cannot understand your way of thinking
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chmom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 05 2020, 4:19 pm
Long but before expressing your views maybe read this first
Makes some excellent points

Use of Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine During the COVID-19 Pandemic: What Every Clinician Should Know FREE

Jinoos Yazdany, MD, MPH; Alfred H.J. Kim, MD, PhD
Article, Author, and Disclosure Information
JUMP TO
In the desperate search to find effective treatments for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), 2 generic drugs, used largely by rheumatologists and dermatologists to treat immune-mediated diseases, have entered the spotlight. The antimalarials hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and chloroquine (CQ) have demonstrated antiviral activity against severe acute respiratory syndrome–coronavirus 2 (SARS–CoV-2) in vitro and in small, poorly controlled or uncontrolled clinical studies (1–3). Normally, such research would be deemed hypothesis-generating at best. A tweet by President Trump on 21 March 2020 claiming that the combination of HCQ and azithromycin “ha[s] a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine” accelerated a worldwide run on the drugs, with pharmacies reporting shortages within 24 hours. Here, we try to provide guidance regarding clinical decision making both for patients with COVID-19 and those with immune-mediated conditions, such as systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) and rheumatoid arthritis (RA), and strategies to mitigate further harm to these patients.
Data to support the use of HCQ and CQ for COVID-19 are limited and inconclusive. The drugs have some in vitro activity against several viruses, including coronaviruses and influenza, but previous randomized trials in patients with influenza have been negative (4, 5). In COVID-19, one small nonrandomized study from France (3) (discussed elsewhere in Annals of Internal Medicine [6]) demonstrated benefit but had serious methodological flaws, and a follow-up study still lacked a control group. Yet, another very small, randomized study from China in patients with mild to moderate COVID-19 found no difference in recovery rates (7). Sadly, reports of adverse events have increased, with several countries reporting poisonings and at least 1 death reported in a patient who drank fish tank cleaner because of its CQ content. Antimalarial drugs can cause ventricular arrhythmias, QT prolongation, and other cardiac toxicity, which may pose particular risk to critically ill persons. Given these serious potential adverse effects, the hasty and inappropriate interpretation of the literature by public leaders has potential to do serious harm. At this time of crisis, it is our ethical obligation as physicians and researchers to organize and refer patients to expedited, well-performed randomized trials that can clarify if, when, and for whom antimalarial medications are helpful in COVID-19. As of this writing, 10 such trials are under way, and information should be forthcoming within weeks.
Whereas the evidence supporting the use of antimalarial medications for COVID-19 is equivocal, the evidence for the use of these drugs to treat immune-mediated diseases is not. For example, HCQ is a cornerstone of therapy for SLE. Hydroxychloroquine can effectively treat disease manifestations, such as joint pain and rashes; reduce thrombotic events; and prolong survival. Of note, landmark clinical trials have demonstrated that the withdrawal of HCQ can lead to flares of disease, including life-threatening manifestations, such as lupus nephritis (8). The current shortages of HCQ have therefore alarmed rheumatologists and patients. Offices across the country report fielding calls from concerned patients who are having difficulty obtaining their medication.
Given the likelihood that shortages will continue in the near term, we propose that manufacturers, clinicians, pharmacies, health systems, and governmental health agencies continue to coordinate an aggressive response to ensure that antimalarial drug use is appropriately managed during the COVID-19 pandemic. First, it is important to prioritize available supply for clinical trials evaluating important questions, such as dosing, prophylaxis, and treatment in COVID-19. Second, treatment interruptions for those with SLE and other rheumatic diseases must be prevented, because lapses in therapy can result in disease flares and strain already stretched health care resources. Third, stakeholders should work together to see whether dispensation of remaining supply to patients with COVID-19 makes sense as evidence rapidly changes. Fourth, clear messages that reflect the proper interpretations of available data must be disseminated with high frequency to counteract misinformation, including misleading statements or articles with “clickbait” material.
Finally, safeguards should be put into place to discourage overutilization by health professionals who are depleting supply by prescribing antimalarials for preexposure prophylaxis. Hoarding by health professionals for themselves and their friends or family is already occurring, but state governments and pharmacy boards have started to institute strict utilization policies to prevent further HCQ overutilization. Meanwhile, multiple manufacturers have already made critical commitments to initiate or increase production of HCQ.
What advice should clinicians give to patients with SLE or RA who have difficulty securing HCQ? The pharmacokinetics of HCQ are an important consideration in answering this question. With long-term use of HCQ, peak plasma levels occur 3 to 4 hours after each dose, with a terminal half-life of 40 to 50 days (9). The long half-life means that brief gaps in therapy, on the order of 1 to 2 weeks, are less concerning. However, longer treatment lapses put patients at risk for disease exacerbations, given studies showing that lower plasma concentrations of HCQ correlate with more SLE disease activity (10). In addition, in a well-designed clinical trial, a higher incidence of SLE flares was seen as soon as 2 weeks after the drug was stopped (8).
Patients may also wonder whether rationing their supply by halving their current dose is a good approach. Studies show significant heterogeneity in plasma concentrations of HCQ, even when standard doses of approximately 5 mg/kg are used (9). Therefore, some patients may do better than others with this approach.
The looming public health crisis for people with rheumatic diseases who will be unable to obtain HCQ is the result of a perfect storm of fear and dissemination of overpromised data. However, there is still time to mitigate the damage. Physicians should educate themselves about the strength of available data regarding HCQ and CQ in treating COVID-19. They should avoid misuse of HCQ and CQ for the prophylaxis of COVID-19, because there are absolutely no data to support this. Public figures should refrain from promoting unproven therapies to the public, and instead provide clear messages around the uncertainties we face in testing and using experimental treatments during the current pandemic, including the risk for serious adverse events. Well-done, randomized clinical trials should be performed urgently to test potential therapies, including HCQ. In the meantime, physicians should remember that first, we must do no harm to the patients with rheumatic disease for whom high-quality evidence shows that HCQ improves health.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Sun, Apr 05 2020, 7:49 pm
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
Now let's compare stomach pain to possible death! Of course it's worth it risking the stomach pain to save your life!


I wasn’t saying that it’s not worth the stomach pain when I have an immunodeficiency and needed the meds to prevent anything from happening! I was saying to trust your drs that this medication is no joke. It can be just as dangerous as the virus for some people.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 05 2020, 10:25 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
I wasn’t saying that it’s not worth the stomach pain when I have an immunodeficiency and needed the meds to prevent anything from happening! I was saying to trust your drs that this medication is no joke. It can be just as dangerous as the virus for some people.


But what happens when the doctor prescribes it but the pharmacy can't fill it because of governor Cuomo's orders? Who should be the one to decide if this medication should be prescribed - a doctor who went through medical school and has years of experience practicing medicine or a politician? The answer is so obvious it's laughable, yet I'm sure there will be somebody here who will figure out a way to twist this around and make Cuomo right and the doctor wrong.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 1:04 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
But what happens when the doctor prescribes it but the pharmacy can't fill it because of governor Cuomo's orders? Who should be the one to decide if this medication should be prescribed - a doctor who went through medical school and has years of experience practicing medicine or a politician? The answer is so obvious it's laughable, yet I'm sure there will be somebody here who will figure out a way to twist this around and make Cuomo right and the doctor wrong.

Dh has a close friend who owns a popular pharmacy, he says the meds are readily available cuz it's an official arthritis medication. Those Drs that want to prescribe it these days know what to write so the pharmacist understands what should be given. The problem is many Drs dont want to prescribe it cuz of Cuomo-may he rest in peace. I know my mother's Dr didn't want. Lemme just say this Dr. Zelenko's patients are getting it...
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 7:06 am
Cuomo isnt dead
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 7:07 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
But what happens when the doctor prescribes it but the pharmacy can't fill it because of governor Cuomo's orders? Who should be the one to decide if this medication should be prescribed - a doctor who went through medical school and has years of experience practicing medicine or a politician? The answer is so obvious it's laughable, yet I'm sure there will be somebody here who will figure out a way to twist this around and make Cuomo right and the doctor wrong.


Sorry, I saw you responded to me. I’m not really following NY news... I’m in LA and got the meds no problem. I’m immunodeficient.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 7:22 am
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
I am pretty sure the zinc should only be 50 mg per day. There is a brand of zinc called zinc-220 ○R (with the R inside the O like for a trademark) that comes in 50 mg capsules.
So Dr. Zelenko prescribes 1 of those capsules per day for 5 days.
220 mg of zinc is way way above the allowed dose.....
I know because my husband was prescribed this by Dr. Zelenko, my pharmacy didn't have it in stock and we had to call back to verify the dosage and how much to use of a different brand. The prescription my pharmacy got shows "zinc 220 mg (50 mg)" 1 time per day, for 5 days.
See a link and excerpt of this brand of zinc I found on Google below
https://m.pdr.net/Mobile/Pages.....te-57

ZINC-220®
DIETARY SUPPLEMENT
(Zinc Sulfate 220 mg. USP)

UNIT DOSE
100 CAPSULES

Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 Capsule
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value*
Zinc 50mg 333%
(From Zinc Sulfate Heptahydrate 220mg)
INGREDIENTS: Each blue and pink capsule contains 50 mg. of elemental zinc. Zinc-220 capsules are gluten free and do not contain dextrose or glucose. Inactive ingredients: rice flour, magnesium stearate, D&C red #22, D&C red #28, FD&C blue #1, titanium dioxide and gelatin (capsule shell).


This is correct it's 1 pill of zinc sulfate 220 mg which only contains 50 mg of zinc in it.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 7:39 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Dh has a close friend who owns a popular pharmacy, he says the meds are readily available cuz it's an official arthritis medication. Those Drs that want to prescribe it these days know what to write so the pharmacist understands what should be given. The problem is many Drs dont want to prescribe it cuz of Cuomo-may he rest in peace. I know my mother's Dr didn't want. Lemme just say this Dr. Zelenko's patients are getting it...


I'm in a position to know there are too many completely false statements in the above post for me to give you an exact count, starting with the first sentence. Dh has a close friend who... is either telling him lies, or your dh didn't understand him.
Why should you believe me over amother tan? You shouldn't. Do your own research. Carefully.
I'm not worried about the politics involved. I don't care if you vote for Cuomo, Boris Johnson or Sean Hannity. I do care about all of us trying to fight the spread of this virus and all the lies and misinfornation on social media.
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amother
Green


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 7:42 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
I'm in a position to know there are too many completely false statements in the above post for me to give you an exact count, starting with the first sentence. Dh has a close friend who... is either telling him lies, or your dh didn't understand him.
Why should you believe me over amother tan? You shouldn't. Do your own research. Carefully.
I'm not worried about the politics involved. I don't care if you vote for Cuomo, Boris Johnson or Sean Hannity. I do care about all of us trying to fight the spread of this virus and all the lies and misinfornation on social media.


What does "do your own research" mean?
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 7:48 am
amother [ Green ] wrote:
What does "do your own research" mean?


Speak to your own doctor. Don't beg him to give you any particular medication. Ask him why he would or would not want to prescribe hydrochloroquine and azithromycin for you or any family member. Ask him if it makes a difference if there are any pre-existing conditions. Ask him if there are any vitamins or supplements he thinks you should take. You can ask your pharmacist the same questions. When finding information on the internet, look for information coming from the CDC or similar.
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 7:55 am
crust wrote:
I knew the truth will come out at some point. So, this is about what they learned in holy medical school? And he is coloring out of the line?

Were all the doctors taught how to handle Covid 19?
Let's hear what experiences they have with this virus and how they are helping people stay alive.

Dr. Zelenko is an out of the box thinker. All straightforward doctors will have an issue with his confidence.

Say it.


As an aside, lots of medical practice works this way. It's time we all see it.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 12:11 pm
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
I'm in a position to know there are too many completely false statements in the above post for me to give you an exact count, starting with the first sentence. Dh has a close friend who... is either telling him lies, or your dh didn't understand him.
Why should you believe me over amother tan? You shouldn't. Do your own research. Carefully.
I'm not worried about the politics involved. I don't care if you vote for Cuomo, Boris Johnson or Sean Hannity. I do care about all of us trying to fight the spread of this virus and all the lies and misinfornation on social media.

Some things are factual some are opinions. If you read, and do some searches on the internet, and listen to cuomo since this whl parsha you'll see that Cuomo's not letting this meds is pure and nothing but politics between him and Trump. He's a m----, and a nut and may he rest in piece. He has blood on his hands from all these ppl that died.
Eta: I wish I can post which pharmacy he owns so you can verify it yourself A very popular pharmacy in it's neighborhood. There are many loopholes in the pharmaceutical industry which both Drs and pharmacists are familiar with.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 12:53 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Some things are factual some are opinions. If you read, and do some searches on the internet, and listen to cuomo since this whl parsha you'll see that Cuomo's not letting this meds is pure and nothing but politics between him and Trump. He's a m----, and a nut and may he rest in piece. He has blood on his hands from all these ppl that died.
Eta: I wish I can post which pharmacy he owns so you can verify it yourself A very popular pharmacy in it's neighborhood. There are many loopholes in the pharmaceutical industry which both Drs and pharmacists are familiar with.


Which is all very nice and good, except that when someone I know tried to get hydroxychloroquine when prescribed by his physician, the pharmacy told him that they were not able to fill the prescription due to Gov. Cuomo's directive. It's possible he could have tried a different pharmacy who knew how to get around this, but he didn't. Thank G-d he's ok, but no thanks to Cuomo.

My point is that this should be a medical decision, not a political decision. Shame on Mr. Cuomo!
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 1:07 pm
chmom wrote:
Long but before expressing your views maybe read this first
Makes some excellent points


I honestly cannot comprehend the logic of this article. The drug was approved for Emergency Use by the FDA. What is the harm when a doctor assesses that the risks do not apply to that particular patient, and no other known therapy is available to save the patient's life? That's what Emergency Use is for.

Furthermore, a double blind, randomized trial on 3,000 health care workers and emergency services personnel is being conducted currently in Michigan. Half of the healthy volunteers will be given a placebo, and half will be given the hcq. The results should indicate whether the drug is effective either prophylactically or in the early stages. Particularly interesting given that the governor of Michigan, who requested the trial be done in her state, had also been one of the earliest vocal opponents of hcq.

As for the person who is claimed to have died from hcq, that is very misleading as the person did not take the medication but a compound found in fish tank cleaner and without medical supervision (obviously). Also, some years ago his wife, who poured the fish tank cleaner into his soda, had filed for divorce so....it seems there's a lot more going on there that has no relevance to this discussion at all.
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 1:59 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/sc.....trump

K
Key paragraph is as follows

"The French study followed work by Chinese researchers which suggested that hydroxychloroquine can slow infections from Sars-CoV-2, the virus behind Covid-19, by blocking it from entering cells in the body. But more recent, albeit small-scale, research from China has shown that patients who were treated with the drugs fought off coronavirus no more quickly than those who didn’t get it. Indeed, one patient given hydroxychloroquine severely worsened in condition while four patients on the medicine developed signs of liver damage and experienced diarrhea."
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amother
Tan


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 2:03 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Which is all very nicest and good, except that when someone I know tried to get hydroxychloroquine when prescribed by his physician, the pharmacy told him that they were not able to fill the prescription due to Gov. Cuomo's directive. It's possible he could have tried a different pharmacy who knew how to get around this, but he didn't. Thank G-d he's ok, but no thanks to Cuomo.

My point is that this should be a medical decision, not a political decision. Shame on Mr. Cuomo!

Of course this should be a medical decision. That's what I'm saying. Some posters say otherwise and I'm saying wake up and smell the coffee!
A Dr cannot prescribe the meds. The pharmacist told my hub that the Drs that are really interested in prescribing this medication know what to write on the prescription the pharmacist should know what to dispense. The medication itself is FDA approved so they carry it anyway.
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itsmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 2:04 pm
Until there's a real study the answer is.... drumroll!

We don't know!

I know, profound!
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amother
Oak


 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 8:12 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:

We see deaths DAILY from Flatbush, Williamsburg, Boro Park and crown height

The insane number of young niftarim nebach in Brooklyn, especially bp, is because maimonides. Hopefully we're over that hump now that they've been exposed
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 06 2020, 8:15 pm
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
The insane number of young niftarim nebach in Brooklyn, especially bp, is because maimonides. Hopefully we're over that hump now that they've been exposed


Seriously?
Many in Lakewood.
People were in NYU and other hospitals as well.
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