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This is why we're angry
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zaftigmom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 8:36 am
I don't condone nasty language or being mean to strangers online. That being said, if you want to understand why people are having such a strong reaction to people not taking this as seriously as they are, I want to explain it to you.

People keep saying we don't know if social distancing works, we can't keep the economy shut forever etc. All of that is true. But some of us are making pesach for the first time with no source of income and bored unstimulated children at home. Many of us are making even bigger sacrifices. Don't you think this has the best shot of working if we all do it at once? What makes it so personal, and so hard to be tolerant of others' decisions, is that your lack of sacrifice makes my sacrifice work less. The more people abide by the rules, the more of an impact it will make. Once we shut down our entire lives we want it to have the best chance of working, and every person that thinks the rules don't apply to them, threatens that.

I also want to explain why I think the rabbis are so strongly against going away for pesach, because it seems many of you don't understand it. Even if you've been isolating yourself and your family, there are ways the virus can get in your house. You can be asymptomatic or just don't have symptoms yet. You don't know if you are carrying it. The hospitals near frum communities are getting overwhelmed. The virus spread faster among us before we shut down due to our communal life ie minyan, purim etc. If every person either had company or was company, it would double the spread in our communities. This doesn't mean that it's not possible for it to be safe for you to go away. It means you don't know. If only 5 people went away, that would probably be fine. Do you think your situation is in the top 5 hardest of your community? You might be right. Talk to your rabbi AND your doctor, and if they agree, you have my blessing.

Please please think of the sacrifice your brothers and sisters are making for the klal and ask yourself if you're doing all you can to make sure you are part of the solution and not the problem.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 8:41 am
We hear you. Do you feel better now?
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amother
Navy


 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 10:11 am
I agree with you. I still hear of people that are getting together for pesach and they are so stupid and selfish. I’m not sure actually if it is stupid or selfish or both.
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cuffs




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 10:19 am
I'm so confused people are going around like nothing is happening? We've been home for a month and making pesach for the 1st time. Olease don't tell me this is true.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 10:53 am
How come a lot of people think they are the exception to the rule??? Some newlyweds, postpartum mothers, singles, people cooped up in apartments.... Why do you think you are the exceptions. If my aging parents and in laws can stay at home, and things are really physically tough for them, and my mother in law is literally all alone, then you can stay at home too.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 11:07 am
Yes op!! You said exactly what I've been trying to convey to people but you said it so much better!
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amother
Copper


 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 11:07 am
The problem is there will always be ridiculous people out there. Call them selfish, stupid, whatever word you’d like. They’ll always be defending their ways, even though they are outright wrong. It doesn’t matter what we tell them. Some people think they have a “right” to their opinion, and the truth is everyone has a right to their opinion, but not a right to act in a way that negatively affects others. It’s just like the anti vaxxers. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s those same people who are insisting they have a right to go away. (Although I do think there are probably a very select few, very extreme circumstances where it might be the right thing. I’m not referring to those.) And you’re right, they really ruin it for the rest of us. They’re going to show up on this thread in the form of huggers, or some will even argue and get a few likes which only reinforces their behavior. Look at what’s going on here in Lakewood. Everyone I know is sitting in their homes. But a few ppl think the rules don’t apply to them and make the rest of us look bad. There’s a special place in hell for people like that. Chilul Hashem is only punishable with death.
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yiddishmom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 11:26 am
OP, very nicely written. This is the way to convey a message - RESPECTFULLY.

To some other posters on here: as long as you call people names, then you are in the wrong.

And let's make it clear, no one on this website has any idea who is going to hell or not.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Fri, Apr 03 2020, 11:49 am
Agreed. I am staying home for the first time, with all the work that’s involved. I don’t want to be responsible for spreading this thing.

And yet my neighbors are hosting their relatives from NY. So much for my sacrifice.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 2:31 pm
You would be better off davening to Hashem and strengthening your immune system than asking people to stop living their lives, because you've decided to sacrifice living yours.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 3:10 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
You would be better off davening to Hashem and strengthening your immune system than asking people to stop living their lives, because you've decided to sacrifice living yours.

What does this even mean?

Is making your own Pesach "sacrificing living your life?"

Everybody's actions have an impact on others. This isn't a MYOB type of situation.

OP was very respectful, and deserves better than snarky comments from anonymous posters.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 4:12 pm
amother [ Navy ] wrote:
I agree with you. I still hear of people that are getting together for pesach and they are so stupid and selfish. I’m not sure actually if it is stupid or selfish or both.

Both, usually.

Occasionally you have someone who gets it but doesn't care. That person is just selfish.

But the vast majority simply don't get it (too stupid), and are too selfish to see beyond their own noses.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 6:13 pm
This is beautifully expressed, and also, just for me, not the main reason I'm upset.

I accept that a certain number of people are selfish, and will drag the rest of society down if it benefits them. Some people litter, some people cheat to get benefits, and some people are going to make social distancing less effective by refusing to believe it applies to them.

It stinks, and I don't love it, but it doesn't make what the rest of us are doing less important. (And on that note, here's a cool graphic on social distancing, and how it can be effective even with some people still moving around.)

What upsets me is that people are taking risks now, even with a critical shortage of hospital equipment. This isn't like two or three weeks ago. Nobody knows what the mortality rates will look like if hospitals can't handle the number of patients. Everybody (who's paying attention) knows that one person getting a severe case of the illness, even if they survive, could mean someone else dies for lack of equipment. Everybody knows that doctors and nurses are overworked and underprotected, and each new patient makes their situation worse.

How are so many people so OK with risking that??

Sure, if just one person did it the chances would be tiny, but when you have hundreds of people doing it, it goes from a 1% chance that it will happen, to a 1% chance that it won't. (if 458 people take the same 1% risk, there's only a 1% chance that the thing they're risking doesn't happen to any of them)

It reminds me of the medrash on dor hamabul, and hundreds of people each stealing a single grape and leaving the seller with nothing. No one person is directly risking a specific other person's life, but it's almost inevitable that someone will die.

Be'H in another few weeks the hospitals will be past the worst of it. At that point, people who take inadvisable risks will only be risking their own lives, and my feeling of "but how can you do that??" will be replaced by a vague irritation.

(just ftr, I'm not saying social-distancing rules have no room for flexibility. they do - where the alternative is equally risky.)
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HonesttoGod




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 10:03 pm
I’m
Not saying that social distancing is easy but there is SO much that is still possible within it, without breaking the rules.
You can go for long drives in the car, walks outside, play games, read books, watch movies, go grocery shopping and bake/cook.

Seriously. I get it’s hard to be home , but we’re all doing it. Why do some people have to “not”? It makes me so angry.

But FTR hospitals are overwhelmed EVERYWHERE! Not just near frum communities.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 10:08 pm
I just want to add the Dr 's & nurses are CRYING and BEGGING you to stay home. They are out of equipment & past exhausted & traumatized. Please don't contribute to them being FORCED to choose who gets to die without treatment.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 10:30 pm
I haven't left my home in almost a month and a lady on my block keeps walking by when people sit outside on their porch to discuss how blissful this time has been for her, how Hashem has given her this precious gift with her children and taken away all distractions, aren't we all sooo appreciative and grateful? LADY, I SEE YOUR INSTAGRAM AND YOU'RE IN TARGET EVERY OTHER DAY PICKING OUT NEW HOME DECOR AS A WAY OF 'SELF CARE'. This is NOT quarantine, stay home you doofus.
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 10:41 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
You would be better off davening to Hashem and strengthening your immune system than asking people to stop living their lives, because you've decided to sacrifice living yours.


This is a stupid post written by an ignorant person. How do you strengthen your immune system so it protects you against covid? What miracle cure do you have that the rest of the world doesn't?
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 11:02 pm
If you are in isolation and alive, not dead from suicide, you don't understand the full extent to which the isolation can harm people.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 11:03 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
I haven't left my home in almost a month and a lady on my block keeps walking by when people sit outside on their porch to discuss how blissful this time has been for her, how Hashem has given her this precious gift with her children and taken away all distractions, aren't we all sooo appreciative and grateful? LADY, I SEE YOUR INSTAGRAM AND YOU'RE IN TARGET EVERY OTHER DAY PICKING OUT NEW HOME DECOR AS A WAY OF 'SELF CARE'. This is NOT quarantine, stay home you doofus.


Is it possible she's shopping online?
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Sat, Apr 04 2020, 11:43 pm
imasinger wrote:
Is it possible she's shopping online?


According to the selfies taken every couple of days in Target promoting her idea of self care, no. It wouldn't bug me as much if she didn't preach how precious this time with her children has been and how I should try to look at it that way too. But ugh, I can't hear it anymore.
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