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-> Parenting our children
singleagain
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 Mon, Apr 13 2020, 11:40 am
Disclaimer, no kids.
But why do you feel the need to make sure everything is sanitized for your kids? Do they never see you kissing? Wouldn't you rather they see kissing from you/in a controlled environment... Then from random places?
Also, consider that with many children, that stuff goes over their heads and if you fast fwd or block it, they will be more curious bc it's suddenly forbidden. I just saw a documentary about modern family. And they're was one early episode where the kids caught their parents in the act. At the time, the eleven year old boy, said he didn't even realize what the episode was about. And he was in it!
I'm not saying that you have to show your kids that episode. But a chaste little kiss or some hand holding isn't going to scar them or lead them down a slippery slope.
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lilies
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:06 pm
| singleagain wrote: | Disclaimer, no kids.
But why do you feel the need to make sure everything is sanitized for your kids? Do they never see you kissing? Wouldn't you rather they see kissing from you/in a controlled environment... Then from random places?
Also, consider that with many children, that stuff goes over their heads and if you fast fwd or block it, they will be more curious bc it's suddenly forbidden. I just saw a documentary about modern family. And they're was one early episode where the kids caught their parents in the act. At the time, the eleven year old boy, said he didn't even realize what the episode was about. And he was in it!
I'm not saying that you have to show your kids that episode. But a chaste little kiss or some hand holding isn't going to scar them or lead them down a slippery slope. |
Those who sanitize everything do not kiss with kids around. Everything is sanitized, so they don't see anything in random places either.
Fast fwd or blocking is explained as 'watching the purity of the eyes'. It's done in the same way as you would teach about safety.
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allthingsblue
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:13 pm
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My kids see us kiss but they don't see other couples kiss
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amother
Seagreen
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:18 pm
The whole world has changed in the last hundred of years. This physical show of intimacy was never a thing, definitely not as open as today.
Because its all out there in the open doesn't mean we need to let it into our homes where we obviously want kedusha. I don't think it's tznius.
I don't have old enough kids for this to be practical but I would try to keep kissing scenes away from them, maybe I'd let hand holding or a hug between genders.
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amother
Puce
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:21 pm
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We don't kiss in front of our kids, it's private. Why would I let them see other couples kiss, let alone non Jews in a movie where the kisses are usually more elaborate??
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amother
Apricot
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:23 pm
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I would never kiss in front of my kids. I didn't even know that there are frum people who would do that. Live and learn I guess.
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Rappel
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:27 pm
Hmm. I tell my kids that we treat ourselves and every person with dignity. Dignity includes that some things are only for in the house, some things are for outside, some things only in the bedroom, bathroom, table etc.
My son already has an excellent sense of privacy, and that it's wrong to display pictures/videos/ads of private things, because then you're not giving those people the dignity they deserve. Respect, honour, dignity, privacy... Call it what you will, but it's important, and it starts when they're very, very young.
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Hillery
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:36 pm
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It's called shmiras einayim.
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amother
Olive
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:50 pm
I somewhat agree with you. I am chasidish my kids watch a bit and I dont watch every single part before. I dont mind mild exposure to violence and love. I dont want them growing up narrow minded about the world. I think its healthier if it grows on them so they dont get a shock when they are older and out of thier bubble.
Also influencing my decision is that as a kid whenever there was kissing on the street my father used to say to me its disgusting dont look and that affects my intimate life took me a lot of years to start seeing and romance kissing as a positive act.
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shaqued_almond
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:55 pm
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I don't quite understand where the problem is. Children don't need to see all the kissing etc. Still it's obviously not as bad as the frequent relations scenes and vulgarity in current movies. It's also very depending on age.
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amother
Puce
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 1:02 pm
| amother [ Olive ] wrote: | I somewhat agree with you. I am chasidish my kids watch a bit and I dont watch every single part before. I dont mind mild exposure to violence and love. I dont want them growing up narrow minded about the world. I think its healthier if it grows on them so they dont get a shock when they are older and out of thier bubble.
Also influencing my decision is that as a kid whenever there was kissing on the street my father used to say to me its disgusting dont look and that affects my intimate life took me a lot of years to start seeing and romance kissing as a positive act. |
If you want your kids to be exposed to kissing, let them see you kissing. Not on a non Jewish movie. This is not healthy for them to see. It's not narrow minded not to let kids watch kissing scenes.
Most frum kids grow up without seeing kissing in non Jewish movies and we're all healthy adults bh.
And your father is right, it is disgusting couples kissing on the street and we shouldn't be staring. I saw some pretty disgusting things growing up in Williamsburg in the non Jewish area.
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amother
White
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 1:51 pm
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I grew up not-observant in Europe (my husband too). I went to beaches with topless women. I didn't wear a bathing suit top until I started developing. S*x was part of the curriculum and we started to learn about it pretty early. I guess, maybe, the environment you grow up in plays a big part in what you want your children to see. For people who have grown up observant, they maybe have not been exposed to certain things and want the same for their children. We are observant, but our upbringings still keep us from completely sheltering our kids. It doesn't help that we live in a specific area in our city where lots of people come to sunbathe by the river in the summer and all my kids have to do is look outside and see women in bikinis! None of our families are observant so when we all get together, everyone is dressed differently. I don't let my children watch full-on s*x scenes, but kissing and hugging is no problem for us.
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singleagain
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:08 pm
| lilies wrote: | Those who sanitize everything do not kiss with kids around. Everything is sanitized, so they don't see anything in random places either.
Fast fwd or blocking is explained as 'watching the purity of the eyes'. It's done in the same way as you would teach about safety. |
But what about when they go into the greater world? Even just in the way to yeshiva they might see something. You can't make the rest of the world conform to your sensitive.
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amother
Puce
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:19 pm
| singleagain wrote: | | But what about when they go into the greater world? Even just in the way to yeshiva they might see something. You can't make the rest of the world conform to your sensitive. |
Just because they might see things on the street, doesn't mean we need to expose them to things at home.
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lilies
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:29 pm
| singleagain wrote: | | But what about when they go into the greater world? Even just in the way to yeshiva they might see something. You can't make the rest of the world conform to your sensitive. |
That's where the concept of 'purity of the eyes' comes into play. It's about teaching the kid to value the purity, not only about the do's and don'ts.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:36 pm
We don't show affection in front of our kids because it's private. Intimacy requires privacy because if an outsider is there, that deep level of intimacy isn't complete, it's interfered with.
Intimacy mean me and you connected and nothing, no one else exists.
I don't allow any nonJewish books or videos or magazines in my house. My home is "sanitized" as you call it. A home is a miniature beis hamikdash so in my home, I am always striving and working to emphasize the right things, the important things. Good middos. Ahavas yisroel. Helping one another. Learning and davening. Keeping neat and organized. Being bsimcha and content with what we have. We arent angels of course but this is our focus.
Where would trashy romance novels or movies fit in to what I want for my home, for my kids?
If my kids see something outside the home, it is not the same as what we have. It is a cheap imitation. Iyh my kids will learn the difference as they grow, in a holy, private, tznius way.
My kids range from 16-1 kah.
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amother
Seagreen
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:36 pm
| lilies wrote: | | That's where the concept of 'purity of the eyes' comes into play. It's about teaching the kid to value the purity, not only about the do's and don'ts. |
Exactly. And its not about being the childs policeman which just tells the child off not to look, its disgusting...
Its about showing them how pure our eyes are and getting this message across deeply so that they themselves should want to protect their eyes from filth even when we aren't around.
A well educated child in this area will instinctively not want to look at anything untznius, you can actually see their pure neshamos shine.
(obviously there are exceptions)
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amother
Coffee
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:38 pm
I don't like kissing, it grosses me out so my DH and I don't and even if we did we wouldn't do it in front of kids or anyone else.
I don't think sanitizing everything for kids is realistic but we can monitor what we're exposing them to and when. We severely limit screen time, like once in a blue moon (maybe once a month? We'll watch a movie or show together). Our main thing is that it's so unnecessary to expose children to things so early. Just let them be kids as long as possible. You can't get these years back so why sully them with inappropriate content?
For us personally it's a balance. We don't want anyone to feel shameful about their bodies but we also want to emphasize that there are parts of bodies that are meant to be private and not shared with just anybody. We want them to know that there's nothing wrong with physical affection and intimacy but only when it's appropriate. We try to emphasize dignity and respect.
Even as an adult I prefer to watch/read/listen to "clean" material because I don't think seeing people have s*x on screen is necessary or important to drive a story forward. I know what naked bodies look like but that doesn't mean I want to see them in the middle of a movie. I don't need books describing s*x to me, I just want to get lost in a good book. I don't like listening to people curse because I didn't grow up with it. I've never heard either of my parents say a foul word in my life.
I'm comfortable talking about things from a biological perspective and we will always teach our children to use the proper term for things and to be comfortable with them for health and safety reasons but they're also words that are only used in certain context and don't just come up in everyday conversation.
For us, it's not about expecting everything to be sanitary and for them to never see someone kissing or never see someone inappropriately dressed because it's unrealistic. To the majority of the world, wearing shorts and short skirts and sleeveless tops is perfectly acceptable. We can't shield our children from that but we can explain that we have a different way of dressing and a different way of doing things but without shaming other people for the way they choose to dress and act because it's not our place to judge.
At the end of the day as parents, every parent has to decide what they feel is best for their family values and how they want to teach their children about the world. Maybe if/when you have kids you'll decide to do something different and that's perfectly okay.
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amother
Tan
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 3:03 pm
My views haven't changed from before I had kids to now when I do have kids.
I grew up RWMO with a TV and going to the movies (80s and early 90s). My parents didn't allow anything R-rated and we didn't have cable and we weren't allowed to watch TV past 9 or 10 PM so we didn't see anything super racy. But we definitely saw kissing and whatever else was on TV in the 8 PM hour. We also saw my parents and grandparents showing affection - peck on the cheeks or super quick peck on the lips, hand holding, etc. I continue this now - I think it's very healthy for kids to see normal, appropriate affection between married people.
We also had secular neighbors and saw plenty of kissing and more all around us in malls, movie theaters, parks, etc.
We basically allow PG-13 movies at around 11 years old and R-rated movies on an individual basis.
We are LWMO.
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amother
Brown
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Mon, Apr 13 2020, 3:04 pm
| allthingsblue wrote: | | My kids see us kiss but they don't see other couples kiss |
Same here
It's healthy for them to see.
My 11 year old son (not my oldest) is so innocent still bH. We have one female hamster, and he asked my dh that if she has babies if we are going to buy a bigger cage etc. So my dh said no because she's on her own she can't have babies! So he said but that's just silly bc animals don't get married 😆
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