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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
S/O what is the common core? different way of teaching math?



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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:07 pm
Someone was upset at how her daughter was learning math. I looked at that video clip that someone replied with and it seems like so many extra steps that don't make sense. Is that common core? Is it for all math. only math?
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Ora in town




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:22 pm
I just watched the video in the link you are referring to.

Actually, this method makes sense, when you want to calculate in your head.

eg. When I see someone was born in 1936 - how old is he now, 2020?
Then I do: in 16 years (2036), he will be 100, so now he is 84.

This is easier for me than jumping over the millenium change with a subtraction...

Or if I have to do 7+5 I do: 7 +3 is 10, and then there are 2 left, so, 7+5=12
,or, even easier: 5+5=10 , and then I have to add 2 more, so 5+7=12

The idea is that you try and find and easier method, like filling the 10s...

Of course, this is only good when you do it in your head. When you write it down on paper, as shown in the clip, it is stupid, less straightforward, more cumbersome... so I would not recommend it instead of the classical way...


Last edited by Ora in town on Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:23 pm
I'm a teacher. I teach common core. I don't teach second grade, but my kids who are older than second grade and did CC did NOT learn it that way.

I think CC is mostly great for MENTAL MATH.
Some people (math brains) do it anyway.
Some can never do it, even when taught.I
Others benefit from it.

CC will teach many strategies for one problem. So double plus one, for example, is just one way of teaching addition.

I'll give an example of CC style math.
What is49+49?
If you had asked me that when I was younger, I would have pictures the numbers lined up, like
49
49

And would have added with visualizing carrying in my head. Because"that's how yoo do it. "

C.C. is very much about number sense

C.C would teach that 49 is one less than 50... 50+50 is 100...-2 (one from each49) is 98

Will post this in the s/o as well.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:26 pm
My daughter is in first and learning common core and it's so much harder for me to teach it to her. I wish they would just do it the old way.
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Ora in town




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:29 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
I'm a teacher. I teach common core. I don't teach second grade, but my kids who are older than second grade and did CC did NOT learn it that way.

I think CC is mostly great for MENTAL MATH.


Exactly

Quote:
I'll give an example of CC style math.
What is49+49?

C.C would teach that 49 is one less than 50... 50+50 is 100...-2 (one from each49) is 98

That's what I would do too, out of laziness, withoug having learned CC...

I agree with you: those are strategies exclusively for mental math...
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amother
Natural


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:30 pm
When I (ELA teacher) was trained in the common core, the stated goal was to help students obtain fundamental skills. For example, social studies should be taught using text and written responses; comprehension questions, essays, document analysis, etc, rather than focusing on memorizing content. After all, in the 21st century, all information is available online, but students need to know how to find, extract, grasp, and use information.

I think the goal with math is somewhat similar. Students should understand and grasp math on an intuitive level, rather than know the best way to complete calculations. After all, who doesn't have a calculator handy nowadays?

As I said on the other thread, whether it's working remains to be seen.
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amother
Pink


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:37 pm
Ora in town wrote:
That's what I would do too, out of laziness, withoug having learned CC...

I agree with you: those are strategies exclusively for mental math...


I call it trying to teach common sense.

You can't teach common sense. People have to come to common sense conclusions on their own. That's when its fully grasped. Its comes at its own pace. So trying to force these common sense strategies in math is just having kids do math in a process that contains many more steps, and often more complicated.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:39 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
I call it trying to teach common sense.

You can't teach common sense. People have to come to common sense conclusions on their own. That's when its fully grasped. Its comes at its own pace. So trying to force these common sense strategies in math is just having kids do math in a process that contains many more steps, and often more complicated.


But isn't it at least a chance to catch up, for those without the innate grasp of these concepts?
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cbsp




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:44 pm
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
But isn't it at least a chance to catch up, for those without the innate grasp of these concepts?



Nope, it just makes it more confusing.

If you have a kid that doesn't really "get" math to them it's not really easier - all the calculations are challenging and not intuitive, it's just way more steps and way more opportunities to mess up.
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Ora in town




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:47 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
I call it trying to teach common sense.

You can't teach common sense. People have to come to common sense conclusions on their own. That's when its fully grasped. Its comes at its own pace. So trying to force these common sense strategies in math is just having kids do math in a process that contains many more steps, and often more complicated.


Very true!
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amother
Pink


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:50 pm
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
But isn't it at least a chance to catch up, for those without the innate grasp of these concepts?


It would depend on the child and when he is ready to understand the full concept behind it. If a child is not ready to understand it, you can explain it to him countless of times, but the light bulb won't go off in his head until he is mentally ready.

That's why I so much prefer the old method. Teach the kids the skills and methods, and they have those skills for life. Right now they're so focused on the common sense behind it, that the teaching of the skills are lacking. The kids seem more confused and more frustrated and have less skills to show for it.

Perhaps it would be advisable to intersperse some intuitive components in key concepts, to give those without the innate grasp an opportunity to understand it. But the primary focus on intuition with the secondary focus on skill makes little sense.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:50 pm
I like the mental math idea- it rings true.

Our main problem with common core is that not only does it have many methods to do the same things, but it required dd to learn them all. So she learned method one, and it was fine, but then she had to learn method two. And she was required to use method two to solve even if method one was easier. When she didn't understand method three at all, she wasn't just told- ok, use method 1. She had to push until she could do method 3 and only then decide on what method to use.

Usually, there was at least one method she didn't understand, so she was regularly feeling bad about herself. Plus, this system meant spending ages on each thing, so if there is one you don't get, you sit there for awhile feeling bad. So she decided she was bad at math. And now, she is.
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Ora in town




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:54 pm
cbsp wrote:


If you have a kid that doesn't really "get" math to them it's not really easier - all the calculations are challenging and not intuitive, it's just way more steps and way more opportunities to mess up.


True too.

I do not remember ever having made additions with my fingers... I did not even know how it works until I was an adult...

I think I just remembered: 2+2 =4, etc...

I think every child has to remember a certain amount of basics for maths... And they have to practice until it is automated... otherwise, they will always stumble over it...

Just did some remedial math with a 7th grader who still kept stumbling over the basic multiplication tables... and even more over basic division... Because of this, she was convinced that she was stupid, math was not for her, that she could not understand math... Because she would just tune out every time she met a multiplication...

And I think you are right in analysing that "making it easier" will not really help. Sometimes you just have to put in the time exercising till it is automatised...
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amother
Pink


 

Post Tue, Apr 28 2020, 8:59 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
I like the mental math idea- it rings true.

Our main problem with common core is that not only does it have many methods to do the same things, but it required dd to learn them all. So she learned method one, and it was fine, but then she had to learn method two. And she was required to use method two to solve even if method one was easier. When she didn't understand method three at all, she wasn't just told- ok, use method 1. She had to push until she could do method 3 and only then decide on what method to use.

Usually, there was at least one method she didn't understand, so she was regularly feeling bad about herself. Plus, this system meant spending ages on each thing, so if there is one you don't get, you sit there for awhile feeling bad. So she decided she was bad at math. And now, she is.


Precisely. There is more that one common sense approach to all kinds of math, and since common core is trying to teach common sense, it tries to explain it using the many different ways.

One only needs one common sense approach to grasp the intuition behind it. Normally, you would get to it in your own way, and I'd get to it in my own way. Now I would need to understand your version of common sense, plus mine and another party's as well. It just lends to a whole lot more confusion and just muddles everything.
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