6 year old ds gets violent

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers

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amother

Wed, Apr 29 2020, 10:52 pm

For about a year now, 6 year old DS has had a lot of trouble self-regulating when he gets upset. It's been mostly under control though, but has really flared up now during these past few weeks.

When he gets upset, he gets consumed by an intense rage and will attempt to seriously hurt the object/s of his rage. For example, if he gets upset at a sibling, he will attack them with all his might, pummeling, scratching, throwing dangerous objects. I intervene and try talking calmly to him, validating him, etc. but in the heat of the moment he won't listen to anything. I then am forced to restrain him from hurting his sibling wherein he proceeds to turn on me, scratching, hitting, kicking, etc. Yesterday, he punched me in the mouth and my lip actually started bleeding. My hands are covered in scabs from his scratching. I try to offer him alternatives (distraction - let's go read a book, should we go express your anger in a different way - punching pillows, draw a picture, etc., let's go have some quiet time to calm down), but to no avail. I usually end up having to physically restrain him - literally wrestle him to the ground, and pin him down, holding his hands down until he calms down. This incenses him and makes him even more angry and aggressive, but if I wouldn't do this, he would end up sending one of us to the hospital.

A few days ago after he made my lip bleed, I took away his afikoman present and told him he is not getting it back until I see that he has learned how to not hurt people when he gets mad. This helped in a few incidents since, but today he had another very violent episode.

Anybody have experience with a similar situation and have any suggestions?

amother

Ginger

Wed, Apr 29 2020, 10:57 pm

Violent rages mean one thing in our house. Strep infections.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 1:16 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Violent rages mean one thing in our house. Strep infections.

If they're sudden.
Not an ongoing situation-even if it's inconsistent.
I know what you mean. Making plans at a time that he's feeling calm. We set up a calming area together with a lot of independent calming activities (LEGO etc), books, beanbag chair etc. Huge encouragement for the good times. Family wide gibor chart with family prize. A sport or exercize toy that wears him out-pogo stick, basketball etc. Lots and lots of davening. Sometimes he just loses it. He is sensitive to transitions so this time is hard. It's tough. Hugs. I am seeing a difference with these strategies and age-growing up helps.

seeker

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 2:17 am

Are there warning signs or triggers leading up to these rages? Look carefully because sometimes it seems like they're sudden but there really may be a lead in that's just really subtle. The key is to try to catch it while there's still a chance to de-escalate. It's more effective to work on handling triggers rather than the rage itself.

amother

Blush

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 4:58 am

Any chance it's sensory based?

Even if it's not, we used to find that deep pressure would help if ours was having a REALLY hard time. Like a previous poster mentioned, the earlier you see the explosion coming, the better it will go. When ours seemed to be heading for a meltdown, I could sometimes get the child into another room, and get the child to calm down a bit, enough so that they'd lie on the bed. I'd keep pushing on their back, rubbing in soothing circles, etc. It seemed to help. One trigger point seemed to be if that child thought something wasn't fair. You may have to keep an eye out for what sets off yours.

As crazy as it sounds, if you can stay calm and reassuring, that can help too. Obviously your first instinct is going to be to get mad, to tell him that this is unacceptable, etc. If you can grab him before he starts hitting (ideally) or at least before you're in physical danger, do so. Grab him in a tight hug and try rocking him for a bit. Try telling him things like "it's ok", "I know you're upset, we're going to fix this", etc. There is no point disciplining him for his behavior in that moment (they"ll be time to talk about that later) - he's just too upset to hear it, and unfortunately it will probably set him off more. If he feels heard and feels like you're on his side, it may help, and the hug will keep him from hurting anyone else until he's calm again.

With a different kid we found that frustration would set in if they didn't know how to express themselves and their feelings. Something as simple as teaching them to say things like "I'm angry", "I don't think that's fair", "I think that's mean", "please stop taking my things", "I don't want to do that right now" made a huge difference. Please understand that when I say "simple" I don't mean that it was a quick fix - it took time for the child to remember to consistently use words, and we also had to teach the other kids to hear those words and to listen to their message. We had to be good about that too ;-)

You may also want to try asking other household members to keep an eye out for triggers. Even siblings can do that - just ask them if they have any idea why their brother got so upset. If they don't, have them walk through what happened right before the explosion - you may pick up something they missed.

BTW, change in routines the past few weeks, plus being stuck at home, boredom, etc, probably aren't helping either :-(

Have you tried asking your son what he's upset about (I mean, ask him when he's calm, not when he's still upset)?

Ora in town

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 6:50 am

Do younger siblings provoke him?

You might want to look into that. Because the one who breaks down is always blamed, but the origin might be somewhere else...

FranticFrummie

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 6:52 am

Ora in town wrote:

Do younger siblings provoke him?

You might want to look into that. Because the one who breaks down is always blamed, but the origin might be somewhere else...

I see you've met my younger sister!

I was a pretty laid back kid, but she always knew how to push my buttons. When I reacted, she would burst into tears and play the victim. My parents always thought she was a perfect angel, and that I was the problem.

mha3484

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:36 am

This sounds a lot like my 5 1/2 year old. I really really really suggest reading the Explosive child. It has transformed my whole family.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:48 am

My 9 year old can get like this. No advice, just sympathy. My mentor told me her only advice is to work very hard on the relationship when he's calm. When he's already in a rage, there's not much you can do except hold him down.

Ora in town

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:59 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I am your little sister, that's why I know.

No seriously: I'm someone elses little sister and I recognise the pattern in families: the bigger ones are always at fault, the little ones are always the angels...

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 12:02 pm

One thing not yet mentioned is have him feel productive and accomplished. Praising for the positive moments but also in the bigger scheme responsibilities he can do and feel big and good about himself.

seeker

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 12:10 pm

Ora in town wrote:

Not necessarily big/little. The calm ones are the angels and the exploding one is at fault. Never mind that calm can = passive aggressive. I've been privy to several abusive relationships that followed this pattern.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 12:25 pm

Stam parenting system that it's so far working for me: charts and points were not tangible enough. All my kids except for my infant got a container that they could decorate. They got their own chart to track every day a list of expectations I had for them. It's their responsibility to mark off that they are done (6+, my younger ones I do). The next day they count up how many checks they got for that day (since it includes their specific bedtime, they need to do that before they complete the day's expectations) and then they get little gems to put in their container corresponding to the checks. They then can cash those in for treats or prizes.

My goal was to make it easier to track but it resulted in 2 unintended positive side benefits: 1. They feel more responsible for their own actions and 2. The tangible collecting of the gems makes it more real and easier to want to gain more than writing points on a paper.

My 6.5 yo is having a hard time, and this made such a difference in him wanting to get more and seeing how his siblings were collecting and cashing at a higher frequency than him compelled him to want to do more of his expectations... Which led to less internal tension and acting up. When he meets his expectations, he feels good about himself, doesn't act up as much, and then gets rewarded for it and it's a great cycle to be in!

I also warned my kids they'd have to pay me back in jewels for certain negative behaviors.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 1:05 pm

[quote="amother [ Blush ]"]Any chance it's sensory based?

Even if it's not, we used to find that deep pressure would help if ours was having a REALLY hard time. Like a previous poster mentioned, the earlier you see the explosion coming, the better it will go. When ours seemed to be heading for a meltdown, I could sometimes get the child into another room, and get the child to calm down a bit, enough so that they'd lie on the bed. I'd keep pushing on their back, rubbing in soothing circles, etc. It seemed to help. One trigger point seemed to be if that child thought something wasn't fair. You may have to keep an eye out for what sets off yours.

As crazy as it sounds, if you can stay calm and reassuring, that can help too. Obviously your first instinct is going to be to get mad, to tell him that this is unacceptable, etc. If you can grab him before he starts hitting (ideally) or at least before you're in physical danger, do so. Grab him in a tight hug and try rocking him for a bit. Try telling him things like "it's ok", "I know you're upset, we're going to fix this", etc. There is no point disciplining him for his behavior in that moment (they"ll be time to talk about that later) - he's just too upset to hear it, and unfortunately it will probably set him off more. If he feels heard and feels like you're on his side, it may help, and the hug will keep him from hurting anyone else until he's calm again.]

Just wanted to say, I have worked with many children with behaviors youve described that have benefited greatly from a sensory approach. I really think you should give this a try!

seeker

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 1:35 pm

A note about sensory approach - be proactive. When they're in middle of a meltdown they may not be receptive to deep touch, hugs, etc. But deep tissue massages done proactively a couple of times a day can help raise the child's capacity to self-regulate in general, and also can accustom them to the feel so that they might be more receptive to using it to calm when they are upset.

Basically the bottom line is that for kids who get out of control, there's really very little you can do in the moment, and it's vital to put in as much support ahead of time as possible to decrease how many times they're going to repeat this pattern and make it part of themselves.

amother

Oak

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 1:54 pm

amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:

I agree with amother ginger.

So far ALL the children I've ever met with intense rage had something physically going on.
My 6 yo was exactly like op described. Busted my lip too. Would not stop for anything. Behaviour got worse then better then worse again.....
Tried a ply therapist. She recommended I have her evaluating before even meeting my daughter. Convinced my kids ped to humor me and test for pans and pandas.

Bh as soon as she was treated for pans. She turned into a different child.
And this was a child who has emotional regulation issues from when she was a BABY! So one can wonder when she developed it. (Me thinks late onset autism sounds like typical pans/pandas!) Read up a bit. Anyway. It's been more then 6 months and wherever I go I get comments about how lovely she is. Whereas last year I was judged for my parenting.....

Please do look into it. Good luck!

amother

Cerise

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 2:58 pm

Amother oak can you tell us where and how your child was treated. I have a similar 6 year old child with when he gets angry he loses it. He’ll spit and punch and yell and seems angry a lot.... we went to doctor and he’s on Zithromax for 2 Months already... we see some change but still not back to himself: his blood work did show pandas .... the amother who posted have you ever tested your child for pandas/pans...

amother

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 9:29 pm

Wow, thank you so much for all of the helpful advice and suggestions. I'm going to try and implement some of these ideas - I think the point about trying to head off his meltdown in the early stages is really valuable; I'm going to try that.

Ora in town

Mon, May 04 2020, 7:41 am

I like this approach by Mary Barbera a lot (see links below). She is specialised on autistic children, but I think the basic principles are valid in general.
What she says is:
"If a child has a "problem behaviour", either reinforcement is too weak or demands are too high" (referring to autistic children, but I think it is true in general)...
I think this is a good guideline to take...

I like the approach of "reinforcement" (= little rewards very, very often, for even the smallest steps, even if there was not much active "work" on the child's part).
The rewards (in the context of autistic children) can be: soap bubbles, using a beloved toy for 5 seconds, make the child laugh,doing anything the child likes (you have to study what the child likes in order to extend and update you reward collection constantly. it is really small things)... in the context of autistic children, the units are very short and rewards are short too.. (five secons learning, five seconds reward, five seconds learning, five seconds reward)...

Of course, you do not have to go to such short segments with a typically developping child, but the concept that
1) reward can be very small and short, but should be given very, very often
2) very, very small things that might seem insignificant to us should be rewarded to amplify them
is genius in my view.

In short, the approach is: do not wait till the child misbehaves, constantly reward him for not misbehaving...(and, of course, you can fade it out once the problem behaviour has completely disappeared, once he learned to express himself in a different way...)

Furthermore I agree that you might want to look into sensory issues... those are things the children themselves do not really understand, they just feel that something irks them and explode, but might not be able to explain why... So then it would be detective work to find out what it could be (the light, some noise, itchy material on the skind, a smell, etc.) or he might just be oversensitive to some of his siblings behaviours... and might need to be protected from them...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4QcZ9Qv8OE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMCzAeFZASk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgR5Ra3gjXw

Last edited by Ora in town on Tue, May 05 2020, 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sapphire

Mon, May 04 2020, 7:57 am

First try the good advice you just get.But if doesn't work:
Patch him a little bit on his hands everytime he is violent .Even a little bit!
You said" Hashem did not give you this beautiful hands to do this!No violence in this house!!!if this hands doesn't know how to behave well . they will get a patch!"
I am totally against beating children but sometimes there is no choice...

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