Should they never get married?

mig100

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 8:11 am

Op I feel for you.

This is a very far from ideal situation for newlyweds. If you look at my posting history you will see I tried to be validating of that on these threads before pesach

I've noticed everyone has very black and white thinking. I tried to change the tone on these threads for newlyweds. I responded and challanged the type of comments you mentioned.

I think had the topic of newlyweds been discussed more respectfully those who could have stayed ho me would have been encouraged to stay home even more

I was outscreamed. I'm sorry

banana123

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 8:11 am

ShishKabob wrote:

Why should it limit a another respectful opinion?
Maybe another poster has a different approach that can add to it in a positive way.
that's my take on it.

OP was looking for specific information, trying to make a specific point.

She made her point. She received the answer of why she was both right (to have her kids over) and wrong (to publicize it).

If the thread had ended there it would've been fine. As is, now everyone has their own 2 cents about whether OP was right or wrong, is a good mother or interfering too much, and there is new discussion on whether the rules are appropriate or not and should be kept or if they are extraneous. I see that discussion as potentially harmful and therefore extraneous, since they come after the best reply on this thread.

You, of course, are free to disagree with my assessment.

amother

Brunette

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 8:32 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Honestly, I wanted to ask this before Pesach but emotions were running high here and you couldn't get a straight word through the posters here.

My recently married child has some processing issues, nothing out of the ordinary, but it does affect said child's social skills a bit and definitely life skills. Said child is very self conscious, has a chip over their shoulder that said child might be a bit different, but struggles valiantly to be equal with peers. BH, we found an outstanding match, a brilliant person with other social issues, also only slightly aware. None of us, we and our mechitanim are in denial, although we never actual admitted to each other the situation. We knew there is good potential with this shidduch but admitted a lot of support will be needed. Best chossen/kallah teachers were chosen and both have spent a lifetime with therapy/coaches and counselors.

BH, it's been a few months now. In the beginning we didn't dare breathe, we were petrified if they will actually click. It took a lot of pampering, indirect emotional support, lots of love and compliments from both us and mechitanim, and we are beginning to see a positive communication and spark between the couple.

Pesach was too soon. There was no way they could make Pesach or a seder on their own. They are not incapable. They do their own breakfasts and lunches and the house is run seamlessly. But making a Pesach for the first time is overwhelming for the regular couple, forget about ours!

So we hosted them, both of us. We are all in our 40's and knew we were doing the right thing. I tried discussing this here before Pesach, but the verdict was sealed. No newlywed shall grace their parents Pesach table or else we are killers by hosting them! If they are not capable of making aPesach, they shouldn't have gotten married! According to some posters, our kids should've stayed single indefinitely!

Now I'm not rambling here to hear validation or get hugged, I'm trying to communicate how vehement and adamant imamother has become. It's my way or the highway. Maybe a poster does have some good reasoning why she does certain things a certain way? Why not give the benefit of doubt? Why not agree to disagree RESPECTABLY?

It left me with a bit of a sour taste.

I work with the special needs demographic and many of my colleagues were working through Pesach and right now as well. We are considered essential workers as the individuals need assistance and cannot function on their own. Please dont listen to the haters on imamother nor do you need to justify yourself to them as a lot of them see thing in black and white so they cannot understand why things are not as they seem. That said, you may want to look into getting a com hab worker to come and help your child so they wouldnt have to rely so much on you and you can get a break as well.

PinkFridge

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 8:40 am

I'm not going to parse this as far as going to both sets of parents but OP, EVERYONE, I.e all the statements from vaadei rabbanim and frum doctors, and I saw several statements from several cities, said that while people should ideally be in their own homes for Pesach if someone (or in your case someones) wouldn't be able to be on their own for yom tov, that they and their hosts (just one set of hosts) should carefully quarantine first and then the guest can go to the host for yom tov.

So again, without looking at all the details - quarantine is NOT my business - your hosting the kids for yom tov was FINE. Had I seen the thread I would have said this there.

Mazel tov! With appropriate support - and it sounds like the supporters are getting a lot of hadracha - such marriages can be a tremendous bracha, for the couple and their families. It sounds like you are doing everything right, and - very important - you bH able partners in your machutanim.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 8:46 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That wasn't me and I did try to explain on other threads but was knocked down before I could get a word in.

I commend you for being a mother who is attuned and involved and I imagine, doing an amazing job supporting her children's needs.

I'm also going to stick up for imamothers as a whole. Nobody mentioned anything about special needs couples in these threads. The comments about not getting married if you can't make a few Pesach meals on your own were NOT referring to couples or individuals who have special needs, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

At one point we were even discussing how some people have no choice, because they require assistance and support, and we have to do our best to protect these people from the unavoidable risk it presents.

Also, there's no way to get "knocked down before you can get a word in". You can post as many times as you want. You can start a new thread. Nobody can stop you from getting a word in.

amother

Babypink

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 8:46 am

leaving the corona issue aside, OP, I want to say something about your question in the title of this thread.

I think the real question is not, should they never get married, but - should they have children.

I'm saying this as the spouse of a sister who sounds, in many ways, similar to the way you describe your DD, but in some ways different. It's hard to know from a short online description. A person is way more complex.

My sister got married about 20 years ago, to a person who sounds totally unlike your SIL. He's more of a quiet, inactive, learning-disabled, also somewhat socially-off type. Like your couple, they definitely have a strong connection. I think it's kind of sweet.

But the kids, that's where it's a disaster. I can't begin to describe their suffering, and the emotional issues they have now (and the cost). They have a daughter who is intellectually normal, a top student, but socially withdrawn, mostly due to the family situation....a son with huge mental health issues...and another child who is being totally neglected in many areas (even though they love him to pieces.)

I should say that neither of them knows how to parent, even though they love their kids.

(Binah magazine had a story in the Pesach issue about an adult who is the child of special-needs parents, entitled Love Is Enough. I wanted to scream NO IT'S NOT.)

Our parents, who tried to help in the beginning, became elderly and then passed on. At this point, some siblings try to help (financially and otherwise) and some totally ignore, because they have enough on their plates from their own families. (the ones that help have plenty on their plates too...they just do their best anyway.)

Even those who help cannot do much - it's not like this couple listens to anyone or lets them. They don't want interference even while they do crazy things that harm their kids. We can make sure the kids have decent clothes, but we can't help with the home they live in....and it's a tremendous financial pressure too, none of us are financially comfortable, and yet we do what we can (and can't) all the time.

Just some things to consider. Every situation is different.

Much Nachas from your couple.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 8:49 am

Hillery wrote:

She wasn't. But I was very clear about the situation with my guests, only that I didn't want to post any details online.

Would it have helped if I wrote all the information so then you could have taken me at my word?

The OP is actually a very good example of not everything being black and white.

Nobody came into your house to comment on your actions. You chose to discuss it here. If you chose to post partial information and ask for opinions based on that, how are you surprised if you are receiving what you consider to be inaccurate assessments of your actions?

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 8:57 am

I just want to chime in- Israel had a much stricter quarantine around pesach. They knew all about sedarim etc.

My cousin is a bit challenged socially and they are a young couple ( they live near his parents that help them out a bit...).

THE GOVT GAEV THEM AN OFFICIAL EXEMPTION Smile

they had to get one to be able to walk on the street Seder nacht. They applied by their local municipality.

So you probably did the right thing, that being said when discussed on a forum (see one of the first reply’s... live ur life, you don’t need such good reason even) ppl err on the side of, sometimes hysterical, caution, in order to communicate how serious it is. Only very few exceptions should be made etc.

I’m sure you though about this, but please involve a rav in the conversation about children, it can derail the progress they made and probably wait until they are on more stable footing (I say this from second hand experience, a pregnancy is very intense on a regular marriage but in this kind of situation can be a huge issue if they are not prepared)

amother

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 9:03 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I would like to understand why people, not just this OP, feel the need to publicize what they are doing, or not doing, or doing illegally or whatever it is.
Everyone does what they do, right imor wrong. Thats their own issue. But why the need to put it out on the web?
Once something is out there, its really nobody's fault for giving their opinions on any post. Thats what this website is all about.

Because when posters were literally "shrieking on to of their longs" STAY HOME!, I felt very judged. Our couple isn't SN, they are a regular couple with a "touch" that BH operate well in society, hold down productive jobs and have lots of friends. Their weaknesses isn't even noticeable to the commoner! That's why BH, we were able to do a great shidduch with great mechtanim, considering the circumstances. We just knew their married life will be a little awkward and harder to adjust in the beginning, and bezh with proper support and guidance, they will stand on firm ground.

Now please be honest, had you seen our newlywed couple, coming and going on Pesach, what would be going through your head? I had to defend that! I felt judged, I'm human and also under the viirus quarantine stress.

turca

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 9:51 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Why do u care about what I think ?
Why do you think u owe any explanation to anonymous people online?

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:12 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Now please be honest, had you seen our newlywed couple, coming and going on Pesach, what would be going through your head? I had to defend that! I felt judged, I'm human and also under the viirus quarantine stress.

But why do you have to defend thrm on the world wide web? Nobody here knows who you are, where you live. You, and all the other posters who told us what they did for pesach, rule breaking or not, could have just left it off the web and that would have been that. Once you put information out there that upset people, there will be backlash. No way around it.
And I literally saw no people walking around on pesach. So no comment on what I would have done.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:21 am

CiCi wrote:

Don't take them too seriously. I hosted my couple too without an excuse as good as yours, and I don't feel like a murderer in the least. They are my family and they are adults who decided for themselves that they want to come. It was their choice. Couldn't care less what others say. Ok, now I'm going to be flamed...

Btw, I know people who quarantined since day one and nebach passed away...I say live your life normally, it's really up to Hashem what happens. Although I did follow social distancing rules when I was in public. I didn't want to make a chillul Hashem...

I admire that everyone else ignored your comment, but alas it pressed my buttons too much.

Just no.

Nothing like what the OP posted. This is why ppl like the OP have a hard time, because everyone assumes that whomever isn’t listening is like you.

amother

Silver

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:25 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You should have specified that the couple is a special needs couple. That changes the whole situation. You cant just post that you're having your kids over and not expect backlash when it's clearly the wrong thing to do . In your case it wasn't but you should have specified that .

amother

Silver

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:28 am

CiCi wrote:

It's very nice that you dont feel like a murderer but guess what ?? You are one . Glad you enjoyed your yuntif while people died alone without family members by their side, had levayas alone , sat Shiva alone too!! But noo you couldn't listen . You had to be selfish and do what was good for you and not what was good for the klal. Ever think that maybe the people that died while they quarantined died because your child was at the store food shopping while they were food shopping?? Or while the person shopping for them bumped into you or your child ?? No we dont care about others . All that matters is that I had my kids for yuntif and I had a nice yuntif . No one else matters in this world . I gotta live my life!!! And if hashem decided that my germs will kill someone so be it !!