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Israel vs NJ in numbers
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 8:05 am
Quote:
I think the question they should have asked rav Kanievsky in the first place, back in March, should have been:
How can we insure that learning goes on when not more than 5 or 10 people are allowed to meet in a room...

They should not have asked him yes or no, this was a trap, tended to him by his own gabbaim...

They should have asked: how can children/bochrim/yungeleit learn in very small groups!


Do you really think he would have answered such a question without inquiring why it was necessary? And then we're back to the previous position.

There is too much bad history and suspicion for the government to automatically be taken as an authority when it comes to learning Torah.
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Iymnok




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 8:58 am
When the government officials meet with Rav Chaim, or any other gadolim, they give a clearer image. They have more information and an agenda.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 9:31 am
salt wrote:
I had great difficulty understand how Rav Kanievsky said initially that the talmudei torah and yeshivot should stay open, until I saw this clip.
https://www.kikar.co.il/351046.html

They way he was asked, he wasn't informed. It was before there were any serious cases or deaths.
As soon as he was informed by government and health officials, he said learning should continue in very small groups, and a few days later most yeshivot closed down.


I don't agree with you at all.

I think the talmud Torahs SHOULD have stayed open.

That wasn't the reason for the spread at all.
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CiCi




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 9:46 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
but it was already shown to not work. Englabd started that way and then changed their minds quickly.
Also, wherever you have groups of people, together, there have been more cases.


According to many scientists, even some Israeli scientists, herd immunity works for covid-19. Sweden is banking on that. As of today, within the scientific and medical communities there are differences in opinion.
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CiCi




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 9:54 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I dont think anyone thought on charedim were not complying with the rules. It literally takes all kinds.


I respectfully disagree with your first sentence. Read through the thread...

I totally agree with your second sentence. There are all kinds of people in all segments of society.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 10:03 am
CiCi wrote:
According to many scientists, even some Israeli scientists, herd immunity works for covid-19. Sweden is banking on that. As of today, within the scientific and medical communities there are differences in opinion.
Sweden has over 20k cases and almost 3k deaths. So, I think the herd immunity has much to be desired Sad
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 10:03 am
CiCi wrote:
I respectfully disagree with your first sentence. Read through the thread...

I totally agree with your second sentence. There are all kinds of people in all segments of society.
sorry, I didnt mean not anyone didnt think this. I meant not everyone thought that way.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 12:27 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
I don't agree with you at all.

I think the talmud Torahs SHOULD have stayed open.

That wasn't the reason for the spread at all.


Who would have taught them?
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 1:32 pm
Didn't read whole threat but a few points:

1. Number of NJ (and USA) deaths is exaggerated. People who were not TESTED for covid are listed as dying from Covid if they have symptoms - even though most people with covid symptoms test NEGATIVE for covid.

Also, if someone dies from heart attack or cancer but they also had covid, cause of death is listed as covid.

Hospitals are paid $13,000 for everyone listed as covid and $39,000 for every covid they put on a ventilator (which may cause death).

2. Israel did take faster action shutting down borders and implementing sd. But the DEMOCRAT Fake News and Democrat Politicians in January and February were OPPOSED to Trump's travel ban and were telling Americans that covid was no big deal - LESS than the flu - and to go to China Town, Mardi Gras Parades, Malls, etc.

These Lying Democrats and their Fake News first accused Trump of "over-reacting" and now claim that Trump "under-reacted" but Trump has video clips of them opposing travel ban and downplaying covid.
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CiCi




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 1:36 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Didn't read whole threat but a few points:

1. Number of NJ (and USA) deaths is exaggerated. People who were not TESTED for covid are listed as dying from Covid if they have symptoms - even though most people with covid symptoms test NEGATIVE for covid.

Also, if someone dies from heart attack or cancer but they also had covid, cause of death is listed as covid.

Hospitals are paid $13,000 for everyone listed as covid and $39,000 for every covid they put on a ventilator (which may cause death).

2. Israel did take faster action shutting down borders and implementing sd. But the DEMOCRAT Fake News and Democrat Politicians in January and February were OPPOSED to Trump's travel ban and were telling Americans that covid was no big deal - LESS than the flu - and to go to China Town, Mardi Gras Parades, Malls, etc.

These Lying Democrats and their Fake News first accused Trump of "over-reacting" and now claim that Trump "under-reacted" but Trump has video clips of them opposing travel ban and downplaying covid.


☝️👍
I agree with every word you wrote.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 3:54 pm
Just saying:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/30/.....6U1pk
New York health chief Howard Zucker: Call him Dr. Death
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 4:53 pm
CiCi wrote:
Israel population 8.884 million
Covid-19 deaths 240

NJ population 8.882 million
Covid-19 deaths 8,000


Actually this confirms quite precisely what a study about hubei and other chinese provinces just found out:

Implement protection measures 3 weeks earlier - reduce number of cases by 95 %
In this case by 97%.

Israel implemented protection measures earlier. that's all.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 4:56 pm
OP after seeing these numbers the next thing you do is google how many square miles in NJ and how many in Israel.
I did it with NYC. Just NY City. The amount of people is almost the same and the amount of miles in NYC are ten times less than in Israel. Point is - Israel has that amount of poeple spread out through the country whereas that same number in NYC is in a much much smaller space. Meaning we're more "squished in" as my son says so of course our numbers are worse.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 4:58 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Didn't read whole threat but a few points:

1. Number of NJ (and USA) deaths is exaggerated. People who were not TESTED for covid are listed as dying from Covid if they have symptoms - even though most people with covid symptoms test NEGATIVE for covid.

Also, if someone dies from heart attack or cancer but they also had covid, cause of death is listed as covid.

Hospitals are paid $13,000 for everyone listed as covid and $39,000 for every covid they put on a ventilator (which may cause death).

2. Israel did take faster action shutting down borders and implementing sd. But the DEMOCRAT Fake News and Democrat Politicians in January and February were OPPOSED to Trump's travel ban and were telling Americans that covid was no big deal - LESS than the flu - and to go to China Town, Mardi Gras Parades, Malls, etc.

These Lying Democrats and their Fake News first accused Trump of "over-reacting" and now claim that Trump "under-reacted" but Trump has video clips of them opposing travel ban and downplaying covid.


Just like CNN had an article yesterday about narcissist egotist Trump in Arizona without a mask

EVERY SINGLE PIC OF NANCY PELISII YM, IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS
she wasnt wearing a mask
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CiCi




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 7:46 pm
HonesttoGod wrote:
OP after seeing these numbers the next thing you do is google how many square miles in NJ and how many in Israel.
I did it with NYC. Just NY City. The amount of people is almost the same and the amount of miles in NYC are ten times less than in Israel. Point is - Israel has that amount of poeple spread out through the country whereas that same number in NYC is in a much much smaller space. Meaning we're more "squished in" as my son says so of course our numbers are worse.


Originally I started the thread comparing NYC to Israel, but someone pointed out that the land area of Israel is closer in size to NJ. I agree that the population denseness is a huge factor in why so many people got infected with the virus .
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youngishbear




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 7:56 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Didn't read whole threat but a few points:

1. Number of NJ (and USA) deaths is exaggerated. People who were not TESTED for covid are listed as dying from Covid if they have symptoms - even though most people with covid symptoms test NEGATIVE for covid.

Also, if someone dies from heart attack or cancer but they also had covid, cause of death is listed as covid.

Hospitals are paid $13,000 for everyone listed as covid and $39,000 for every covid they put on a ventilator (which may cause death).

2. Israel did take faster action shutting down borders and implementing sd. But the DEMOCRAT Fake News and Democrat Politicians in January and February were OPPOSED to Trump's travel ban and were telling Americans that covid was no big deal - LESS than the flu - and to go to China Town, Mardi Gras Parades, Malls, etc.

These Lying Democrats and their Fake News first accused Trump of "over-reacting" and now claim that Trump "under-reacted" but Trump has video clips of them opposing travel ban and downplaying covid.


Can you see the same contradiction in your post, as the one you accuse the CAPITALIZED WORDS FOR DRAMA Democrats of doing?
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 7:59 pm
https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch.....ents/
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 8:05 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Didn't read whole threat but a few points:

1. Number of NJ (and USA) deaths is exaggerated. People who were not TESTED for covid are listed as dying from Covid if they have symptoms - even though most people with covid symptoms test NEGATIVE for covid.

Also, if someone dies from heart attack or cancer but they also had covid, cause of death is listed as covid.

.......
.


Not exactly.

According to this New York Times article, N.Y.C. Deaths Reach 6 Times the Normal Level, Far More Than Coronavirus Count Suggests.


https://www.nytimes.com/intera......html
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youngishbear




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 8:12 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Not exactly.

According to this New York Times article, N.Y.C. Deaths Reach 6 Times the Normal Level, Far More Than Coronavirus Count Suggests.


https://www.nytimes.com/intera......html


I was waiting for these numbers; thank you.

I mentioned the 1918 flu elsewhere. There was no testing at the time, but one way epidemiologists can estimate fatalities is by comparing deaths in those years compared to an average year. Of course the calculations are much more complicated than that, but it is an interesting starting point.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 07 2020, 9:46 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Not exactly.

According to this New York Times article, N.Y.C. Deaths Reach 6 Times the Normal Level, Far More Than Coronavirus Count Suggests.


https://www.nytimes.com/intera......html


Thank you.
As a matter of fact, in all European countries strongly hit by Corona the excess mortality is more than the Corona Virus death count. At one point, Italy estimated that they were off by a factor of 2, I.e. in reality they have double corona deaths of the figures in the statistics... wich is around 29'000 for Italy... which means that it would be over 50'000 in reality...
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