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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:21 am
etky wrote:

One thing though that has not really been addressed is the very significant fact that the PA seems not have a huge health crisis on its hands and has apparently been successful in containing the virus. Since we don't really have a hermetic border with the PA that is an important (and unexpected) fact that has worked in our favor too.


That's an interesting observation...
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:21 am
banana123 wrote:
I don't trust the PA's numbers. I suspect they have a much higher number of cases than they are willing to admit. We cannot allow PA Arabs in without endangering Israelis' health.


Salut Applause Dancing
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heidi




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:26 am
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
Israel's schools were closed before the US and lockdown started before the US


Also, here there was actually enforcement.
Americans are way to undisciplined to do what Israelis did for 6 weeks. We didn't go anywhere but 1 store. Everything was closed.
In America even during lockdown people were going to Target for fun🙄

I'm all for saying that Hashem is protecting Israel.
But look at the difference in attitude.
On Pesach 4 separate friends told me about having married children who came and went between them and the mechutanim all chag.
Two separate friends told me about their chol hamoed trips to Bear Mountain.
Friends in America were taking their kids to the park. Just to bike around.
If you search here you can find threads screaming about American invasion of civil liberties.
We shut up and stayed inside.
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etky




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:26 am
banana123 wrote:
I don't trust the PA's numbers. I suspect they have a much higher number of cases than they are willing to admit. We cannot allow PA Arabs in without endangering Israelis' health.


I think it's a given that they may be fudging the numbers somewhat but believe me, we would know it if they had a major outbreak on their hands.
And workers are already being let back in and they even cancelled the 'not over 50' rule that was introduced at the beginning of the Corona situation, when they had the initial outbreak in Beit Jalla/Bethlehem.
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:28 am
A. The PA is not a democracy, anyone breaching lockdown there could be shot - literally.
Like in China, it’s easier to maintain lockdown when human and civil rights are not an issue.
B. Israel is a country with extensive international travel, thriving incoming and outgoing tourism - business travel etc. Poorer countries in general were less affected because of this.
C. Chances are they are not telling the complete truth and because civil rights are violated people are probably under reporting cases for fear of their civil rights being violated.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:40 am
heidi wrote:
I'm all for saying that Hashem is protecting Israel.
But look at the difference in attitude.
On Pesach 4 separate friends told me about having married children who came and went between them and the mechutanim all chag.
Two separate friends told me about their chol hamoed trips to Bear Mountain.
Friends in America were taking their kids to the park. Just to bike around.
If you search here you can find threads screaming about American invasion of civil liberties.
We shut up and stayed inside.


Go to park and bike around is fine...

Going and coming between parents and parents in law is not a good idea...

So it might be that Israel exagerated the lockdown. But not mixing (on pessach) was definitely important...
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:41 am
100% miraculous.
Also- from the most secular Israeli to the ultra orthodox there is intrinsic value to saving a life in this country. its way up there on the top priority list. When we stayed home here, we weren't doing it just "cuz the police are patrolling" we did it for the savta's and saba's of our country who we love and respect and want to stay alive and well. I think the sense of personal responsibility contributed a tremendous amount to our low numbers. but also- miraculous. truly.
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etky




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:42 am
chanchy123 wrote:
A. The PA is not a democracy, anyone breaching lockdown there could be shot - literally.
Like in China, it’s easier to maintain lockdown when human and civil rights are not an issue.
B. Israel is a country with extensive international travel, thriving incoming and outgoing tourism - business travel etc. Poorer countries in general were less affected because of this.
C. Chances are they are not telling the complete truth and because civil rights are violated people are probably under reporting cases for fear of their civil rights being violated.


To a great extent, Abbas' political survival (also physical, come to think of it) depends on avoiding a crisis situation in the PA so no doubt they are being very, very strict about lockdown.
Same goes for Gaza where they have only a handful of ventillators and very few hospital beds and any type of civic unrest would be very detrimental and destabilitizing for Hamas.
Interesting that Jordan too seems relatively unscathed.
The great fear was the import of Corona to the PA from Iran (with it's possibly more virulent strain) via Jordan and from there into Israel.
True that there is less international travel in the Arab world but there is still a degree of mobility.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:47 am
banana123 wrote:
I don't trust the PA's numbers. I suspect they have a much higher number of cases than they are willing to admit. We cannot allow PA Arabs in without endangering Israelis' health.


I don't trust PA's figures either... (that said, even the countries with most intense testing are off by a factor of 10)

But the fact that the health care system is not overwhelmed is significant.

I wonder why?

Lower mean age in the population?

More fatalistic attitude to people dying from the disease?

Or do they really control the situation?

Same goes for developing countries... perhaps they don't even have an ambition to get medical care in such cases, since people also die from measles, chickenpox, etc...
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:49 am
Ora in town wrote:


So it might be that Israel exagerated the lockdown.

was it exaggerated? Maybe.
Was it a brilliant move and most def saved lives? 100 %
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:54 am
It was exaggerated. But before Pesach we were seeing the situation where, "If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile". So we had to close even that inch. That way, people broke the rules by taking an inch, but that was tolerable, and didn't lead to the huge outbreaks that the mile would have.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:57 am
I would have never agreed with Bernie about America having government health care before this happened, but it certainly looks like countries with universal health care, such as Israel, have a culture of health. As long as health care is guaranteed to each citizen, there is no excuse for anyone to neglect his or her health.
I think that some cultures prioritize healthy eating and the food in Israel is very fresh and most families cook more and eat out less. I also think that the positive physical affects of military service in youth can last for years after the person leaves active duty.
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 8:58 am
Elfrida wrote:
It was exaggerated. But before Pesach we were seeing the situation where, "If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile". So we had to close even that inch. That way, people broke the rules by taking an inch, but that was tolerable, and didn't lead to the huge outbreaks that the mile would have.

exactly. you gotta know your citizens and that's what needed to happen. Seichel. Lots of Seichel.
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heidi




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 9:14 am
Ora in town wrote:
Go to park and bike around is fine...

Going and coming between parents and parents in law is not a good idea...

So it might be that Israel exagerated the lockdown. But not mixing (on pessach) was definitely important...

No.
In Israel going to a public park was forbidden from the end of March.
Exaggerated lockdown saved over 11,000 lives if compared to NYC numbers.
I'll take it
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amother




Ivory
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 9:31 am
This thread is cracking me up

Q: why are numbers so different?
A: israel did A, B, and C and America did none of the. Other countries which did A, B, and C were also successful.
People: must have been a miracle! Nothing we could have done.


* yes, I fully believe in yad Hashem but I also believe that Hashem works bderech Hateva
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 9:43 am
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
This thread is cracking me up

Q: why are numbers so different?
A: israel did A, B, and C and America did none of the. Other countries which did A, B, and C were also successful.
People: must have been a miracle! Nothing we could have done.


* yes, I fully believe in yad Hashem but I also believe that Hashem works bderech Hateva


Your summary made me smile Laugh
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amother




Pewter
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 9:55 am
amother [ Lime ] wrote:
Also (hold the tomatoes!) more Americans tend to be overweight than elsewhere. It doesn't help with respiratory viruses. I remember my first visit to America (Florida) at 10 years old and two things really astonished me-
how massive food portion sizes were (we'd get served in a restaurant and literally burst out laughing)
how many morbidly obese people there were, many who couldn't even walk anymore

Just gleaning from the victims I know of, none of them are obese, barely overweight if anything. I know this is random but I actually have 1 family member who's obese, over 65, diabetic, had kidney issues, to name a few. His doctor basically let him know if he contracted the virus, he's dead. He has been unknowingly exposed before purim, had symptoms, and just now took all available tests. Came back negative, with antibodies. I think the information out there is still all anecdotal. Conflicting data is the only constant here.
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amother




Pewter
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 10:00 am
etky wrote:
Maybe, maybe not.
But there were stricter, more coherent guidelines (thank you Health Ministry) and more exact information being put out to the public practically minute by minute.
And this in addition to everything else that posters have written - the early response and, most significantly IMO, the border closings, restrictions and quarantine requirements that were incumbent on foreigners and returning Israelis alike.

Are you sure flights from china was still coming to the us? I thought they did stop that before purim, and the virus came to the us from Europe? I may be wrong here..
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 10:04 am
amother [ Pewter ] wrote:
Just gleaning from the victims I know of, none of them are obese, barely overweight if anything. I know this is random but I actually have 1 family member who's obese, over 65, diabetic, had kidney issues, to name a few. His doctor basically let him know if he contracted the virus, he's dead. He has been unknowingly exposed before purim, had symptoms, and just now took all available tests. Came back negative, with antibodies. I think the information out there is still all anecdotal. Conflicting data is the only constant here.


Blacks in America are roughly13% of the population but 30% of the virus cases. They are also known as a group to have poorer health than the rest of the population. Correct me if I am wrong (happens on rare occasions) but the Hispanic community ditto. Apparently these communities are even harder hit than the rest of the country as far as serious illness and death. Feel free to correct if I got this wrong.
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amother




Pewter
 

Post  Wed, May 06 2020, 10:12 am
WitchKitty wrote:
Right, because it's easy to get coronavirus through windows.
The only minyanim until restrictions were eased were porch/window minyanim, where not ONE person left the house. Windows/porches only.
There is no way to do that in NY/NJ. No one will hear the chazzan 6 houses down.

I actually have a minyan like that right here in Brooklyn. The baal tefillah changes, but even if the chazzan if 6 houses down, everyone kinda mumbles along, and as long as you're up to pace you can get your amens if you cant quite hear. There have been shuls in the past (pompodusa I think) that worked like that. it may not be ideal undrr normal circumstances but we do what we can
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