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Why do you consider me selfish?
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:26 pm
If public transportation is running
If flights to Florida are available
If liquor stores are open
If parks are open
If Walmart is open
If other stores are as well
If de Blasio doesnt walk around with a mask
And so dont many other officials
If we are not really doing this all together.
I am selfish for wanting to visit our elderly grandparents? Or just going outside?
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:29 pm
No. Most of us want to be closer to people we love. Not selfish at all.


Also what is stopping you from going outside?
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giselle




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:29 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
If public transportation is running
If flights to Florida are available
If liquor stores are open
If parks are open
If Walmart is open
If other stores are as well
If de Blasio doesnt walk around with a mask
And so dont many other officials
If we are not really doing this all together.
I am selfish for wanting to visit our elderly grandparents? Or just going outside?

For wanting to or for visiting?
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:46 pm
I wouldn’t go within 20 ft of grandbparents or parents.
This is to protect them
It would be selfish to put them st risk.

I visit if we don’t need bathroom stops
This is for my family safety

I don’t have to put my family at risk.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:49 pm
sky wrote:
I wouldn’t go within 20 ft of grandbparents or parents.
This is to protect them
It would be selfish to put them st risk.

I visit if we don’t need bathroom stops
This is for my family safety

I don’t have to put my family at risk.


They want us to come. They are over with the virus, and are crazy lonely. (Its a grandparent from each side, so they are basically both alone)

And 20 ft.?? Why can't we go and stay 6 ft away?
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:51 pm
Because if all your friends jump off a bridge chas v'shalom...
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:53 pm
My point is, how are we protecting ourselves if the entire state is not enforcing it?

With the above mentioned, open flights and public transp, it is not called a quarantine.
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Pamela




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:54 pm
“If de Blasio doesnt walk around with a mask
And so dont many other officials”

Others doing wrong doesn’t make it right. No matter who the others are
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:56 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
They want us to come. They are over with the virus, and are crazy lonely. (Its a grandparent from each side, so they are basically both alone)

And 20 ft.?? Why can't we go and stay 6 ft away?


The virus can travel 17ft. People can get reinfected.
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amother
Purple


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:57 pm
From the rabbis of Passaic/Clifton (emphasis mine):
Quote:
Many are distressed at the incongruous prospect that authorities will soon allow people to return to work and resume other routine activities, while our Mikdeshei Me’at will remain shuttered. We must clarify without equivocation that the considerations and decisions of local, State, and Federal officials in this regard do not shape or determine the standards of Halacha regarding Pikuach Nefesh.

Unquestionably, we owe a profound debt of gratitude to governmental authorities for their Herculean efforts to protect the public from COVID-19 and its effects, and they have shown great generosity and consideration for our community in particular. However, it is clear that their decisions to loosen restrictions involve weighing economic and social costs against the value of the lives that will inevitably be lost in taking these steps at this time. Such a calculation is an anathema from a Torah point of view, when at the present it is impossible to gauge the potential repercussions of modifying our community’s existing protocols.

Experimentation with unpredictable consequences of sakanas nefashos is unacceptable to those who value each life as an olam malei.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:57 pm
Pamela wrote:
“If de Blasio doesnt walk around with a mask
And so dont many other officials”

Others doing wrong doesn’t make it right. No matter who the others are


True, but why are people angry at civilians when the govt. themselves are not practicing what they preach?

If we all affect each others, it should be done together. But we are not. The govt. Is not.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 1:58 pm
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
Because if all your friends jump off a bridge chas v'shalom...


But Chani's mom let her jump off a bridge, so why can't I go too?
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 2:01 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
But Chani's mom let her jump off a bridge, so why can't I go too?


Its a poor comparison, and you know it.

We know the virus won't end, if half the people are watching and half not. So if the govt didnt close down public places, how will this ever end?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 2:04 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Its a poor comparison, and you know it.

We know the virus won't end, if half the people are watching and half not. So if the govt didnt close down public places, how will this ever end?


Sorry, I should have made it more clear that I was being sarcastic.

I've been following the rules to the letter since before Purim. I was alone for Pesach, I'm alone each Shabbos, and it's just been really hard on me.

I get cranky when people take things casually, or think that rules are for "other people".
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 2:04 pm
Going outdoors while keeping 6ft apart from people and wearing a mask is ok and should be done. Nobody is saying that you should stay cooped up in your apartment.

Public transportation is running so that mainly essential workers can get to and from work etc.

Walmart is open for essential as an essential business. It is not a place to go to do leisure shopping.
The stores that are open are only open to serve essential needs.

Deblasio is a selfish person. I wouldn’t compare the things HE does to the things I do.

Parks are open and that’s great. You need to follow the SD guidelines in a park. So it’s ok to go with a mask and keep 6ft away from people. I would assume people at risk are not visiting parks. And if they are , they are being irresponsible.

Visiting your grandparents can harm them. There is no way of knowing whether they could get sick again. My close friend was sick and tested positive and a few weeks later still showed positive. Then she retested and was negative . Two weeks after her negative test she had all the symptoms all over again , including fever and difficulty breathing.
Her friend had the same exact thing. She was put on oxygen twice . Weeks apart from each other .
Of course they are lonely. MANY people are lonely. That does not mean it’s ok for them to be put at risk for illness.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 2:04 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
They want us to come. They are over with the virus, and are crazy lonely. (Its a grandparent from each side, so they are basically both alone)

And 20 ft.?? Why can't we go and stay 6 ft away?


6 ft isn’t so safe. Maybe with both wearing a mask. But even then it’s been proven not to be safe.

Why would I want to put someone who as been protecting themselves at risk.
I understand they are lonely.
Do they even want visitors close. Most ppl understand it’s for their own safety. My parents very clearly don’t.

I don’t think it’s selfish to do things for yourself.
I do think it’s selfish that specifically puts those the most at risk at risk.

Like I think the country should open a lot more. I think those 60+ should still stay home and protected .
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CiCi




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 2:10 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
They want us to come. They are over with the virus, and are crazy lonely. (Its a grandparent from each side, so they are basically both alone)

And 20 ft.?? Why can't we go and stay 6 ft away?


Being a senior doesn't automatically mean being disoriented. If they can generally make decisions for themselves, this is another decision they choose to make and you are not being selfish by letting them visit. It's their choice like we make ours.

So no, you are not being selfish!
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 2:13 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My point is, how are we protecting ourselves if the entire state is not enforcing it?

With the above mentioned, open flights and public transp, it is not called a quarantine.


it was never a quarantine unless you were ill.

If your grandparents are all about the town anyway - you visiting with them will just be an added exposure.

If your grandparents are 100% alone - you will be their only exposure.

What everyone else is doing is irrelevant.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 2:14 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
Going outdoors while keeping 6ft apart from people and wearing a mask is ok and should be done. Nobody is saying that you should stay cooped up in your apartment.

Public transportation is running so that mainly essential workers can get to and from work etc.

Walmart is open for essential as an essential business. It is not a place to go to do leisure shopping.
The stores that are open are only open to serve essential needs.

Deblasio is a selfish person. I wouldn’t compare the things HE does to the things I do.

Parks are open and that’s great. You need to follow the SD guidelines in a park. So it’s ok to go with a mask and keep 6ft away from people. I would assume people at risk are not visiting parks. And if they are , they are being irresponsible.

Visiting your grandparents can harm them. There is no way of knowing whether they could get sick again. My close friend was sick and tested positive and a few weeks later still showed positive. Then she retested and was negative . Two weeks after her negative test she had all the symptoms all over again , including fever and difficulty breathing.
Her friend had the same exact thing. She was put on oxygen twice . Weeks apart from each other .
Of course they are lonely. MANY people are lonely. That does not mean it’s ok for them to be put at risk for illness.


Youre right. But as long as public transportation is open, a lot of people will be going places, not only those for work.

Lets be honest, how many people are flying off to Florida?

How many people are shopping makeup and clothing in Walmart?

I feel that we are being counterproductive by being open halfways. Either we shut down completely or do like Sweden.

With the contagiousness of this virus, it doesnt make sense to do it halfways.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 10 2020, 2:20 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Youre right. But as long as public transportation is open, a lot of people will be going places, not only those for work.

Lets be honest, how many people are flying off to Florida?

How many people are shopping makeup and clothing in Walmart?

I feel that we are being counterproductive by being open halfways. Either we shut down completely or do like Sweden.

With the contagiousness of this virus, it doesnt make sense to do it halfways.


Going to Walmart or Florida is very diff then visiting the elderly.

Just because schools open back up doesn’t mean my mother can go back to teach.

The elderly who is staying home is a diff category then the young or those running around town.
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