Where do I go from here? Heartbroken from DD

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amother

Peach

Mon, May 11 2020, 2:39 am

Seriously, I think its completely out of line to label her dh as an abuser from this post. And jumping the gun to call shalom task force on dd. I am sure the dh or dd can explain complaints on OP too if they posted . Dear OP, its very unhealthy but from everything you wrote, very fixable with the right help. Do not despair. Your family can get on a good path. I think you and dh have the ability to do this.

seeker

Mon, May 11 2020, 3:30 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

You don't call Shalom Task Force "on" anyone. It's not the police or a trained attack dog. It's a support organization that can help people decide how to handle this kind of situation. It's never "jumping the gun" to ask for support and advice, and there is blood on your hands if you discourage people from calling an organization that aims to save lives.

amother

Peach

Mon, May 11 2020, 3:41 am

seeker wrote:

Thats just how the poster wrote the suggestion. Followed by call the police. She has a parenting job to do, not a tween to wage war with.

simcha2

Mon, May 11 2020, 7:07 am

I'm very concerned for dd13. Is this new behavior for her? Has she started her period? Some girls have severe emotional issues with the hormonal change, especially anger, and need outside intervention (therapy, medication). Is there something else going on with her? She sounds out of control and so unhappy. Have you tried talking to her in a calm moment? Does she feel out of control to herself? Does she want help?

amother

Puce

Mon, May 11 2020, 7:22 am

OP what went on before everybody was stuck at home with corona? Are they not used to having you in charge? It sounds like they're resisting you being their mother.

Ora in town

Mon, May 11 2020, 7:22 am

UFF!
That sounds really hard.
As opposed to many commentators here, I do not think that your husband is the source of all the problems.
But I agree that it is hard to understand the dynamics at play, because you do not really describe your role in all of this.

Does your daughter have the impression that many responsabilities get dumped on her? Are you sometimes tired or ill and then she just jumps in and does what has to be done? Is she parentified?

In general, what you describe is quite widespread in teenagers: that they challenge their parents, especially their mothers and try to show them that they are stronger than her.

I suppose that it is really in some way a cry for attention and help...

On the other hand, it is also a cry of insecurity, where they want to find someone strong, who can reassure them at the other end...

I.e. she is waiting for you to reassure her that you and your husband are responsable for the family, that she is not the parent of her siblings, that she does not have to change their nappies or whatever... If she has a long history of changing nappies, this might be a bit difficult... Also if she is the type of "perfect housewife" and you are more "let it go", it might also be difficult to reassure her that you are on top of things, that everything will work out also without her contribution, that she does not have to take on adult responsibilities in this household...

So really I think that the solution could be to give her more free time, to go out with friends... which of course is not possible now with Corona... so this might be the reason why it escalates now.

As far as your husband is concerned - I do not view his answers so negatively. He tells her to respect her mother even if she thinks that her mother deserves no respect... that's fair enough... He understands that it is not worth while discussing with a revolting teenager about facts... He is right...

mommy3b2c

Mon, May 11 2020, 7:36 am

Ora in town wrote:

If you do not view the husbands answers so negatively then you are either abused or an abuser yourself. Just being honest.

amother

Amber

Mon, May 11 2020, 7:50 am

Marriage counseling ASAP.
And therapy for your 13 yr old as well.
I have to wonder about DHs parents, where did he learn such a screwed example of a marriage.
Will dh go for couples therapy?
Nobody, but nobody, deserves to get stepped on like you are. You aren't the substitute babysitter, you are the mother, the wife. It is your home and you need to run it as you see fit.

My 13 yr old is difficult but normal teen difficult. Your daughter's behavior is way over the top. How does she act towards teachers and friends?

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:25 am

I am so done. He just told me that according to halacha, there is no obligation to respect me because it says איזהו מכובד המכבד את הבראיות and according to him I'm not respectable. I tell him we should ask a Rav and he just laughs, says "come on, please" and "it's not about halacha, it's about an agenda."

amother

Wheat

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:27 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm so broken. I don't know what to do with my 13 YO. She's the oldest and has always been a strong personality, but since corona her clashes with me have gone through the roof. She's become violent, shockingly verbally abusive, and constantly turns the other kids who are old enough to listen to her against me. My preschooler she tries to brainwash by telling him that Mommy doesn't love him and wants to hurt him.

She wants to run the house and can't handle the fact that I'm the actual mother. I am home all day with the kids while DH is out, and any time I tell them what to do she ignores, fights, screams or refuses. It doesn't make a difference whether I'm talking to her or the other kids. She will physically get between me and the other kids, in my face, and scream at me and not let me deal with them.

She's violently attacked me a few times. She is bigger than me, and can be scary. If I try to take away toys or privileges, she gets verbally abusive and/or physical as well. She tells me all day that I'm abusive and crazy. Then when DH comes home she complains to him that Mommy is crazy and didn't let X Y and Z. No matter what I tell him, he takes her side and tells her "yes, Mommy is wrong, but you shouldn't talk back anyway because you're just adding fuel to the fire, you be a tzadeikes even if Mommy is immature, wrong and crazy." He is a total pushover with the kids and they love him because he never, ever tells them what to do or gives them any consequences for bad behavior. And he will tell me in front of them that I am wrong and should not tell them what to do and I'm not allowed to take anything from them.

I've told him time and again that he needs to back me up. He refuses. I've told him if he's out all day, he needs to allow me to direct the kids. They literally answer me back all day "I don't have to listen to you and Abba said so." He has told them according to the Torah, they don't have to listen to their mother, only their father.

I'm so so so fed up. I'm under siege in my own home. I am trying to parent in an impossible situation.

Just some of the delightful gems I heard from this child today: 1. she wants to kill me 2. I should come near the window so she can throw me out 3. I'm a pig (when I took a piece of food on my plate for supper) 4. she's calling the police because I "stole" her camera (which she then faked doing)

I am so at a loss. I never thought I would have to deal with something like this. My kids were always basically good kids, even if they had their moments now and then.

This is a major issue and my biggest question to you is how old was she when this all started? Because it is a natural stage in many children's development but if you don't curb it when they are little, then they end up bigger than you and behaving the same exact way.

With consistency it gets better. But if this has been going on for years, you are way way way too late.

You need a) parenting counseling for BOTH you and your husband, b) your daughter needs some kind of emotional/ behavioral therapy, and possibly psychotherapy as well, c) you and your husband need marriage counseling, stat.

Also, if this is new and hasn't been going on for years (even on a lesser scale) then you have to figure out if something has happened to spark it. Is/was she being abused (maybe s*xually) in school (even by a female classmate or teacher) or at home (by a sibling)? Has she not been SDing properly, and if so who did she meet?

amother

Wheat

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:28 am

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Seriously?! Her dd violently attacks her and dad says things like, "you be a tzadeikes even if Mommy is immature, wrong and crazy."

He is ABUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and he flat out lies that children dont need to respect mothers, only fathers.

Did DH witness the attack? Because if not then it is super common not to believe that something like that happened and to just brush it off due to denial.

He DOES need serious lectures from a respected rav who will explain the facts of life to him. But in all honesty a lot of bochurim pick up these stupid attitudes in yeshiva.

trixx

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:33 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am so done. He just told me that according to halacha, there is no obligation to respect me because it says איזהו מכובד המכבד את הבראיות and according to him I'm not respectable. I tell he we should ask a Rav and he just laughs, says "come on, please" and "it's not about halacha, it's about an agenda."

OK, well, we can now definitely call abuse.

trixx

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:35 am

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

A man with a 13 year old daughter cannot be excused for bachur behavior.

amother

Wheat

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:36 am

trixx wrote:

A man with a 13 year old daughter cannot be excused for bachur behavior.

Unfortunately for many this behavior doesn't end with the chuppa.
It's one of the major fixes the yeshiva system needs.

notshanarishona

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:36 am

Why are you still married to him? The foundation of a marriage is respect- if he can’t respect you as a person then their is nothing to work with. You deserve better . Please get out before it gets worse. And I don’t normally say this but make sure you are on birth control or not being intimate with that animal

amother

Salmon

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:37 am

There’s definitely a bigger issue here. A short term solution could be declaring you’re going away for a few days and he’s staying home with the kids. See if his attitude changes when he’s in charge of them for a bit. Your daughter is picking up the attitude from him, so it’s his attitude that needs to be changed. You are not their servant and maid to boss around and abuse.

amother

Wheat

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:39 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

This is a really good idea.

thunderstorm

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:39 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am so done. He just told me that according to halacha, there is no obligation to respect me because it says איזהו מכובד המכבד את הבראיות and according to him I'm not respectable. I tell he we should ask a Rav and he just laughs, says "come on, please" and "it's not about halacha, it's about an agenda."

I’m sorry but the more I read the more I read emotional abuse.
He is brainwashing you and gaslighting you and it’s not shocking that your DD is imitating her father.
You must discuss this in therapy ASAP.
Often emotional abusers are “Mr Nice Guy”. They know how to say things to make you believe that what they are saying is the truth and you begin to question your own reality.
Your daughter is in pain. She sees the dysfunction between her parents and now she’s crying out for help. She doesn’t know how to react besides for copying the way her father deals with things. Your family needs lots of help. Therapy for YOU. I bet, Your DH probably wouldn’t agree to therapy because he’s convinced that only YOU need therapy because YOU are crazy. That’s very typical of an emotional abuser.
Your daughter needs therapy too.
Please get professional help as soon as you can.

chanchy123

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:43 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am so done. He just told me that according to halacha, there is no obligation to respect me because it says איזהו מכובד המכבד את הבראיות and according to him I'm not respectable. I tell he we should ask a Rav and he just laughs, says "come on, please" and "it's not about halacha, it's about an agenda."

That is not okay. Was this part of a fight? Was it said in anger or does he really think this way?
Spouses sometimes cross the line and say mean things to each other in anger, but it sounds like this is a pattern.
You deserve respect as a person even if you’re flawed. I don’t have much advice for you to proceed but you should know you are worth a lot, your DH has a big problem he’s got to learn to respect you.
I don’t know what’s going on in your family, odds are you’re not a perfect parent but nobody deserves to be put down like you have. Please do consult a rav and use exact quotes. Reach out to someone in real life.
ETA
I heard the term gaslighting a lot on this site - but not until I read this thread did I fully understand what it means.

CiCi

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:46 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am so done. He just told me that according to halacha, there is no obligation to respect me because it says איזהו מכובד המכבד את הבראיות and according to him I'm not respectable. I tell he we should ask a Rav and he just laughs, says "come on, please" and "it's not about halacha, it's about an agenda."

He said you are not to be respected because you don't respect others. So here's my question; what does he mean by you not respecting others?

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