Where do I go from here? Heartbroken from DD

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Rose

Mon, May 11 2020, 11:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I just want to take a minute to address this post. Having a therapist doesn't mean you have access to a constant stream of validation and affirmation. There are weekly sessions, that never seem to be long enough, in which you discuss the situation and maybe if there's time try to figure out what steps if any can be taken. Or it could be the therapist working with me to encourage me to stand up for myself. But a lot of things go on in my life every week, and like I said, it's less than an hour a week. I don't have anyone else to vent to about the situation, and this thread has been so so validating and strengthening for me in a time when I feel very alone and marginalized.

I see this misconception on threads here a lot. Just because an amother has a therapist, doesn't mean that Imamother can't provide valuable emotional support to fill in the gaps, especially when there's a situation that consumes so much mental and emotional energy and you can't stop thinking about it but there's no one you can really talk to about it on a daily basis.

OP, you can always come here for support and just to talk to us moms! We are here for each other! I’m so happy this thread is helping you, and you should know you have 100% of our support when you take action and we will always be here and help you by talking through it! We don’t want you hurt and we are on your side, you deserve a happy family! Everyone does

amother

Magenta

Mon, May 11 2020, 11:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So true Op. I'm also dealing with a very difficult situation and I also have a therapist I see weekly. But there are times when I need more than what she can give me. There are also times when I need immediate answers or validation. Theres nothing at all wrong with that.

amother

Seashell

Tue, May 12 2020, 12:29 am

I’m also wondering why the children needed to be involved in the phone call to the rav? Why not call in private?
It sounds to me like you and your husband have a bad marriage and instead of acknowledging that and working it out or separating, you’re projecting it onto your children.

amother

Mauve

Tue, May 12 2020, 12:34 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I agree completely.

It's scary for children to be involved in their parents marital issues.

amother

Tue, May 12 2020, 12:34 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I called him to clarify the halachic points after asking my DH if he minded. He had been telling me his usual twist on "halacha" in front of the kids (e.g. that I am not allowed to tell the kids what to do, that they don't have to listen to me, that I'm not allowed to remove privileges or enforce consequences such as taking away a toy etc.) and I told him are you sure, that doesn't sound right, I think we should ask a shailah. He said go right ahead, so I did. Then the conversation with the Rav evolved.

amother

Mauve

Tue, May 12 2020, 12:41 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Ahh.

Can I ask you what your plan is now?

carnation

Tue, May 12 2020, 8:56 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

My ex is an emotionally abusive and a cunning covert narcissist and I dealt with his trying to alienate ds for years before the divorce.

Below is some of what I did in case it could help you in any way. BTW currently ds is 12 and I have a very close relationship with him despite all, although he definitely sees me more like a friend and not with the high god-like respect he thinks of his father. With all this, unfortunately ds is still quite confused and is a challenge each and every day.

1) I took and still take 30 minute walks with him every day. I think this is the single most important and helps the most. That positive one on one attention without xh around and outside the toxic home proved very effective. During these walks I tried to talk of subjects ds enjoys.

2) I focused ONLY on the positive of him. Before the divorce when he had his father's influence all the time and anyways whatever I asked my son to do (ex: bedtime is 9:00, coat must be hung in the closet right away when he comes home, put away his dishes after a meal, make his bed etc), xh used to make sure ds doesn't do any of it ( "let me show you some interesting videos", when it's 9:00 and I just announced bedtime). But all this while saying "mom is an amazing mother, I myself just have issues with her.."

So I literally couldn't teach ds basics. I remember crying to my therapist WHO SPECIALIZES IN ABUSE and narcissists (very important!) "what will be with ds?? BTW, bH after the divorce I started training ds the pure basics of mentchlichkeit. He still has a long road to go.

3) I showed him TONS of love. When he hit me, which usually comes along with "I hate you", I said "I don't care, I LOVE you anyways and I always will, no matter what" and I told him HOW much I love him etc.

In short, I swallowed down a lot. Because I saw my son as a helpless terribly confused child who doesn't have the capacity to give of himself. He's constantly on a battlefield in emergency mode and I knew he can not absorb my teachings.

I did sometimes, very rarely have to put down my foot. Ex: ds wanted unnecessary lights on for Shabbos which was an absolute no no for me because I was the only breadwinner and couldn't afford to pay extra. For that, I was very strict and literally held my son physically to avoid him to reach the light switches after I lighted shabbos candles while xh was standing right there and silently smiling at my son as in "wink, turn it on".. later I explained to him how it costs extra money and then I won't be able to get him fun things etc, thus got him to understand that my being harsh to him will in the end only benefit him.

4) any strictness which I rarely utilized, only in near emergencies, was done in a way that ds was made to understand that it's for his own good.

I'm happy to hear that you have a rav on your side. That's major. I'm still looking for a rav who understands COVERT narcissists to help my son. To explain to him what a mother is. That she's not a piece of garbage. I didn't find one.

Again, saying all this in case it could help in any way.

This. Seems there are ways to get around this situation.

#BestBubby

Tue, May 12 2020, 9:14 pm

carnation wrote:

This. Seems there are ways to get around this situation.

1. Just because amother carnation was able to prevent total alienation from her son doesn't mean most parents are able to overcome alienation.

2. Please note amother carnation got DIVORCED and has CUSTODY - which is why she was able to preven total alienation. OP does not want to get divorced and I fear that decision will result in complete alienation of all her children.

3. While carnation was able to avoid TOTAL alienation, her XH did succeed in undermining her parental authority which is a big deal. I would not want to have to deal with constant rebellion which carnation has to put up with.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, May 12 2020, 9:15 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

As a current mother of 3 teenagers, I would like to emphatically say that there is nothing remotely normal in what OP describes.

Same here. I agree.

If the DD lifts a finger to a parent she can be charged with assault. I would never advocate going this under otherwise normal circumstances but this child needs a real wake up call. Forget the Torah right now since that's not helping. She needs to know if nothing else that it is a crime to strike a mother and she can end up in jail.

saw50st8

Tue, May 12 2020, 9:56 pm

OP, I think it's important to realize that you cannot change anyone else's behavior, only your own.

I highly recommend reading "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It's life-changing. I realize that it doesn't touch on your own marital issues but it may give you a way to see through some of the chaos with your daughter.

amother

Smokey

Tue, May 12 2020, 10:07 pm

Bestbubby, it seems you have experience with alienation that ended up really bad. Do you mean NOTHING can be done once a child is being alienated from their parent?

amother

Khaki

Tue, May 12 2020, 10:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Smart lady.
Also, keep in mind that you don’t need his permission to call a Rav. But sounds like you dealt with it smart, calm, and confident.
Good for you.

amother

Wed, May 13 2020, 12:21 am

Wow, what a day!

BH things are looking up with DD for the moment. I asked the Rav to speak with her this morning, after another morning full of Mommy-bashing on the part of DH and 3 older kids. The Rav told her that her father is telling her to go against halacha and so she is not allowed to listen to him in these matters. She was crying a lot after the call, and telling DH she's confused. She really is a very good girl in essence, but she very much worships him on the other hand. She ended up speaking with a close family friend/mentor whom she greatly respects, and BH came off the phone much more settled and back to herself, back to before all this craziness started.
I also gave DH an ultimatum yesterday, and proceeded with taking some steps today to show him I'm serious. I'm kind of freaking out about it. I do NOT want a divorce! But it seems the only way to get him to wake up is by pushing him against the wall and showing him I'm serious about not being able to parent this way. I'm scared he'll call my bluff, and I don't want to actually end up at the end of the road.
Hashem should help.

amother

Mauve

Wed, May 13 2020, 12:23 am

Wow, I'm impressed. You are doing the right thing for your children. If dh refuses to change, leaving him will be the most loving act you will ever do for your children. But I strongly suspect that dh will change once you stop tolerating such behavior.

amother

Rose

Wed, May 13 2020, 12:28 am

I hope he cleans up his act for you OP! And that he learns Torah and Halacha, then teach his children REAL Kibud Av VaEm. BH your daughter spoke to the rabbi and someone she listens too, I really hope your situation turns around for the best and everyone-husband and children- apologize to you and respect you with the love every mommy deserves

mommy3b2c

Wed, May 13 2020, 1:00 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Do not let him call your bluff. If he tries to, you must take steps towards a separation. He needs to see you’re serious. A separation does not mean you must divorce. It just means that you respect yourself and you will not allow yourself to be abused anymore. Be strong. You can do this. We are praying and rooting for you.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, May 13 2020, 1:06 am

Good for you OP!

You're setting firm boundaries for your children and your marriage. IY"H that will allow both of them to flourish.

Wishing you continued strength on this path, you are taking real steps to positive change!

WhatFor

Wed, May 13 2020, 1:07 am

I'm glad someone finally raised parental alienation because yes, that is point blank abusive behavior. OP it's great that you're now taking all the steps you need to take right now. You are breaking the cycle and no longer enabling his abusive behavior.
Sometimes taking accountability for not enabling means making very difficult decisions.

Based on what you describe, and that DH refuses to listen to guidance, you might have tremendous difficulty seeing change on his part. Hopefully I'm wrong, and your taking action will force him to act. But if he won't change, I just wanted to say that the big D is not always as ominous as it looks. Living like you do sounds super stressful and unhealthy for your children. They shouldn't be living with that kind of abuse, and one way or another, the abuse needs to be out of their home.

CiCi

Wed, May 13 2020, 1:13 am

I never knew there's such a thing as parental alienation. It's really scary how depraved people can be and the lengths they go to to hurt others for no reason at all.

Much hatzlacha and I hope the situation takes a turn for the best.

#BestBubby

Wed, May 13 2020, 4:13 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

Bestbubby, it seems you have experience with alienation that ended up really bad. Do you mean NOTHING can be done once a child is being alienated from their parent?

My sister's XH worked hard to alienate the children from her. My sister was able to stop complete alienation by doing heavy bribing and refraining from all discipline. But that is not a
normal parental relationship. And these anti-alieantion tactics don't always work either.

Page 5 of 7

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next