Big pharms and conspiracy theories

amother

Wed, May 13 2020, 9:06 am

Disclosure: I'm an amateur. I don't know anything about this stuff and never paid attention....

My father had been putting videos on our family chat from doctors and regular people making the claim that the pharmaceutical companies don't want word spreading of any simple non vaccine treatment for covid19. For example, I've seen several doctors claiming they have effectively treated covid patients with hydroxychloroquine. Not surprisingly the fda says the opposite, that this treatment is ineffective and can cause harm. Again, doctors who are actually using it are saying it works.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

amother

Ecru

Wed, May 13 2020, 9:39 am

As someone whose spouse for big pharma,I find these theories disgusting.

My Dh, who spends hours caring about the smallest detail in a clinical study, because these are real people who are being treated, and real people's lives, is not murdering people by denying them access to meds.

Honestly, awful awful lashon hara. And you should tell your father the same thing.

southernbubby

Wed, May 13 2020, 9:43 am

I just watched a video by Dr Zelenko and he says that there is a huge difference between giving the drug in the first 4 or 5 days of the infection and giving it when the person is critically ill.
No one knows, of course, how many people would have gotten over the virus even without medication so we don't really know how many lives are actually saved.
The drug is apparently safe during pregnancy, breastfeeding, and for children and should be taken before visiting malaria stricken countries. The side effects may prevent some people from continuing the drug and it's best tolerated at lower doses but low doses may not be effective for Corona virus.
We don't know if feeling better means that the virus is no longer contagious and assume that it's still contagious even though the patient has appeared to recover.
I do agree with Dr Zelenko that physicians and pharmacies should be allowed to treat Corona virus with hydrochloriquine as they see fit but patients must be advised about possible dangerous side effects. Nobody should blindly take any medicine, even OTC meds and vitamins.

southernbubby

Wed, May 13 2020, 9:50 am

Hillery wrote:

I never get the blind trust conspiracy theorists place on 'little pharma'. As if the alternative 'medicine' industry isn't also a multi billion $ money machine.

Very true but zinc sulfate is part of Dr Zelenko's protocol and vitamin D may also save lives. Now I am reading that melatonin can help and I wonder if probiotics can help prevent the virus from setting up shop in the intestines. It may be a joint effort between big pharma and little pharma.

amother

Lemon

Wed, May 13 2020, 9:50 am

southernbubby wrote:

I do agree with Dr Zelenko that physicians and pharmacies should be allowed to treat Corona virus with hydrochloriquine as they see fit but patients must be advised about possible dangerous side effects. Nobody should blindly take any medicine, even OTC meds and vitamins.

I found the different state responses interesting.

https://naspa.us/resource/hydr.....ycin/

I think drug shortage was a real concern... but there was also a bit too much 'nanny state' happening, but the reason for that doesn't IMHO have anything to do with Big Pharma.

amother

Mauve

Wed, May 13 2020, 9:55 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hydrocholorquinine is manufactured by Big Pharma, not harvested in your back yard. Just like Z-Pack. What reason would pharmaceutical companies have for not wanting it to work.

Most people recover from covid, so its not impressive to say that most people recover after taking hydrochloroquinine. They recover after drinking ginger ale, too. Right now, studies are showing that it doesn't seem to work. IMNSHO, they should keep looking for something that does seem to work. I'm not willing to risk my life on this, just because Trump touted it; I'd like some studies backing it up. Which, btw, are ongoing.

Because of hydrochlorquinine's adverse effects on the heart, it should only be taken in a clinical setting or hospital.

amother

Wed, May 13 2020, 10:13 am

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

Interesting. So what would your dh say about all these doctors that seem to be successfully treating patients with a dose of medicine that costs around $15?

amother

Wed, May 13 2020, 10:16 am

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Simple. A vaccine would be administered to the world. Billions of doses. The anti viral medication would be given only to those who show up at the doctors office with symptoms and are diagnosed.

I'm not saying the conspiracy theory is accurate. But when discussing it we need to be fair and acknowledge that there are astronomical financial benefits for a vaccine to be produced vs. an existing cheap medication that again, would only be given to a small minority of people.

amother

Lemon

Wed, May 13 2020, 10:23 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Interesting. So what would your dh say about all these doctors that seem to be successfully treating patients with a dose of medicine that costs around $15?

not her - but there is IMHO are real concerns here.

Most people recover from a Covid infection without pharmacological treatment or intervention. Rushing to treat everyone with a cocktail of drugs, not studied for this purpose, is worrisome. We don't know enough yet to educate doctors and patients on the risks.

amother

Ecru

Wed, May 13 2020, 10:31 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Interesting. So what would your dh say about all these doctors that seem to be successfully treating patients with a dose of medicine that costs around $15?

Haven't asked him, but I assume
1) "seems to be treating" is the operative part of the sentence. Without trials it's anecdotal and a meaningless statement.
2) the cost of bringing a new drug to market is about $2.6 Billion. If they already had a drug that worked, they could just sell that and save billions, with no wait time. (Start selling immediately rather than waiting for development, trials, FDA approval, manufacturing). Why wouldn't they do that?

Your argument doesn't have logical sense.

amother

Wed, May 13 2020, 10:47 am

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

Thank you for responding. As I said earlier, I'm not very familiar with all this.

You say the cost to bring a new drug to market would be 2.6 billion. You seem to be implying that as a result of this cost, the pharmaceutical companies would actually be more profitable not bothering with the expensive task of making new drugs and vaccines.

Isn't the other side to this argument that while it would be very expensive to create the vaccine,(2.6 billion) the profits from the vaccine would be astronomically higher?

chestnut

Wed, May 13 2020, 11:05 am

southernbubby wrote:

I watched his newest video yesterday too. Wish he was less political, it detracts from his points imo.
He said he's releasing his study in a few weeks. That should be interesting.
I heard that the research on this meds that said it wasn't effective was based on Drs administering it to people already very sick, while his point is to give it right away at the first symptoms. That would be a huge difference if true.

amother

Ecru

Wed, May 13 2020, 11:11 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes, they make drugs in the hope of making a profit. But if they already had a drug, why would they make a different one with all the associated costs?

With regard to vaccines, in general vaccines are relatively low profit which is why most major drug companies have stopped making them.

Your initial question was in regard to an existing drug somehow being maliciously hidden in order for big bad pharma to have profit at the expense of people's lives. A disgusting assertion.

I don't understand your point re vaccines. Companies will risk billions developing a drug (many drugs never make it market, so that development money is lost), and if they are successful they'll recoup their costs and potentially make a profit. Why is that nefarious?

amother

Cyan

Wed, May 13 2020, 11:19 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

This. I recovered from it without any treatment except Tylenol. And so did my DH, who had it much more severe. So if we were given hydrochlorquinine and z-pack, we would still recover, but it wouldn't mean that drugs actually helped.

amother

Burlywood

Wed, May 13 2020, 11:48 am

We know several ppl personally who were quite sick at home with high fever etc. who felt their condition improved Dramatically after one day one day on this drug . It’s anecdotal but talk to Hatzalah who actively sought to get ppl this medication and saw dramatic results .