What does"have emunah" mean during Covid-19?

amother

Thu, May 14 2020, 5:32 pm

How do we apply having emunah? What should we have emunah in?

I want to be logical so I can't say that we should have emunah that we won't get Covid-19. That seems silly as it seems clear that hashem is not infecting people based on how much emunah they had. So should jews have emunah that even if we c'vs catch the virus and die, it's what hashem wanted to happen? I don't think that would give me solace to know that pain and suffering is hashems will and somehow good. That's not comforting. So what exactly do we mean when we say to have emunah?

mig100

Thu, May 14 2020, 5:37 pm

I think the hardest part of having emunah in such an unusual scary situation is knowing how to do proper hishtadlus then realizing everything else is out of our hands.

Excessive or lack of hishtadlus are both the wrong approach.

How much? I can't answer. We have to do our part then feel a sense of serenity that we have a protective father looking over us who has our best interest in mind. He knows what is best for us better than we know ourselves and can do anything.

The 7 principles of chovos halvavos are great place to start - real basic foundation

I can try to post here later

Last edited by mig100 on Thu, May 14 2020, 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

mig100

Thu, May 14 2020, 5:39 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

When it comes to protecting others, you don't have to worry about going overboard on hishtadlus.

I'm not sure about that.

Eta though I would say it doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution when it comes to life and death issues

Last edited by mig100 on Thu, May 14 2020, 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Thu, May 14 2020, 7:20 pm

behappy2 wrote:

Emunah is I believe God is just. I believe there is justice in this world. Nobody gets more pain then was destined for them in whichever way it came in. Everything will make sense to me after 120. Right now I will allow this experience to naturally accomplish what it needs to.

On one hand I think I agree with you. On the other hand if we substitute the words you just wrote for the word emunah, it's hard to understand why it's a source of comfort.

Example: Somebody suddenly loses their income and is worried sick about losing their home. We'd say in general terms to "have emunah".
According to what you wrote we are telling the person that hashem is just and their pain and suffering was meant to be and to accept it as it is from hashem whose calculations are beyond us.

I think a person would have to be on an incredibly high madraiga to really believe this. In fact, it's near impossible. On the contrary, we beg hashem to change the decree and arrange things in a way that we humans understand to be good. Telling a person who lost a loved one to the virus to have emunah, meaning that the person was meant to suffer and be terrified and die. The persons family was meant to now go thru unimaginable suffering but....trust that all this suffering was supposed to happen because hashem decreed it. That's not so comforting. At least not to me.

behappy2

Thu, May 14 2020, 7:32 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

1. I don't tell ppl to have Emunah I don't even tell that to myself. Ppl say it as a means to find comfort. Often it's very empty.

2. I called up my Rav when this started to get perspective. I questioned it being deserving to anyone since it's really a mageifah. He told me that There is a checks and balances. If something negative happens to someone which wasn't supposed to then something else negative that was supposed to won't.

3. If what you want is only positive things to happen to ppl so that's a whole other duscussion. For me this was enough.

avrahamama

Thu, May 14 2020, 7:37 pm

The source of comfort is not the outcomes or the externals. The source of comfort is Hashem. In any situation.

We say shivtecha umishantcha hema yinachamuni (sorry terrible transliteration) we are saying to H your crutch and your rod both comfort me. The crutch you give me to lean on and the rod you use to "discipline" me are both my source of comfort.

Emunah is that in any case it's all Hashem and it's all a comfort.

amother

Thu, May 14 2020, 7:49 pm

avrahamama wrote:

Thank you for responding. This has always been a tremendous source of confusion to me.

You say the comfort is not the outcomes, but.....all we do is ask hashem for outcomes!

Hashem please give us health, children, money, shidduchim....outcomes, outcomes, outcomes. Nobody says on yom kippur, hashem, I trust your judgement. If you give me tragedy I know there's a reason. Nobody is saying to hashem during this pandemic that we trust you and if we are meant to suffer with Covid, so be it. On the contrary, we ask hashem for OUTCOMES. Please hashem, protect my family from Covid. I don't want to be sick. I need you to give me this outcome.

Do you know anyone who doesn't ask hashem for outcomes?

behappy2

Thu, May 14 2020, 7:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But I also ask for peace, joy, spiritual connection etc...

thunderstorm

Thu, May 14 2020, 8:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We may ask Hashem for outcomes, because we as humans are limited and believe that these outcomes are good for us. However , knowing that Hashem has the full picture and only HE knows what is truly best for our neshama and existence , we have the emunah that whatever Hashem ultimately decides is for our best. And that means in bad times as well. Sometimes we need tragedy and tzaros to bring us closer to Hashem.

I do daven to Hashem that should I need to go through difficult times, that he should give me the understanding , the acceptance, the peace of mind and the energy to get through the hard times. I don’t expect Hashem to only give me good things. Hashem sometimes brings us difficult circumstances so that we could grow and become better people because of it.

Knowing that Hashem only wants the best for me gives me comfort . What I think is best for me may actually be the worst for me. Only HE knows what is really best for me right now.

amother

Thu, May 14 2020, 8:25 pm

behappy2 wrote:

But I also ask for peace, joy, spiritual connection etc...

Peace and joy are also outcomes. They are the opposite of turmoil and sadness. We ask hashem to give us these outcomes and not the opposite outcomes. I don't think any of us have emunah to the extent that we are comfortable with whatever the outcome. A couple struggling with infertility never said, hashem, I trust your judgement and I accept your will of having no children. Emunah really is based on outcomes.

thunderstorm

Thu, May 14 2020, 8:29 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There are people that do have strong emunah and they do accept it. Maybe you don’t know anyone personally . But I believe that there are people that do honestly believe that is what’s best for them and they don’t ask. They could still feel pain from childlessness because they are human but they can also understand and accept that this is what Hashem wanted them to go through.

avrahamama

Thu, May 14 2020, 8:43 pm

We are meant to ask for outcomes. Olam chessed yibaneh. The world was created for us to enjoy.

But asking for outcomes and still knowing that I'm any case "you get what you get and you don't get upset" ( or you do get upset for a little bit) that's emunah

Knowing that not getting what you want doesnt mean that Hashem has removed himself from you.

Two of my favorite songs are illustrations of this concept. Yodati and vafilu bhastara. In both songs we are saying that instead of resisting whatever we think we need to resist ... We just accept H is there in it. (I give birth singing these songs, also pitchu li shaarei tzedek)

So for me. Emunah is seeing and being comforted by Hashem in all the different ways he shows himself to me.

And believe me ... This new thing we are all going through is testing me. I can't understand the pain and I can't understand what it's done to our sense of humanity ...

But HKBH is here. And I have to take comfort in that. He took care of me before even when I didn't deserve it and he will take care if me now ... And I pray that it will be a revealed good for me and all of us.

However I would NEVER tell someone to "have emuna" that's cruel and too personal of a thimg.

behappy2

Thu, May 14 2020, 9:00 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There are two things. Asking Hashem for things and trusting he hears and cares and has powers to take care and guide you. And there is trusting that this world and Hashem is just and fair and pain doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

When ppl say have Emunah, I think they generally mean chin up, have faith and hope for the best. When tzaddikim say it they mean other things...

PinkFridge

Thu, May 14 2020, 9:04 pm

There is a great series on Chovos Halevavos on TorahAnytime by Rebbetzin Ruthie Halberstadt that I think could be tremendously helpful for many.

A major point that she and everyone I hear (even on a secular webinar) make: Living with uncertainty.

Emunah means going through the day doing the ratzon Hashem - I.e. all the things we are supposed to do with our day - because this is what Hashem wants of us. This is what we are supposed to do in whatever situation He puts us in.

I had the zechus to hear some shiurim by Tammy Karmel. Something I think of often is a story she told about when she got a hoist, and how dehumanizing and demoralizing it was to be up in the air, like a sack of potatoes. Then she told herself, I can serve Hashem in my chair, and I can serve Him up here.

Emunah is going through every moment of life in service to Hashem.

silverlining3

Thu, May 14 2020, 9:54 pm

I find first thanking Hashem for what you have and then asking for further health, wealth or wtvr it may be, gives me some comfort.
I once heard, when you wanna say tehillim for a specific cause, 1st say kapitel kif neyan (last 1), thank Hashem and then whichever else.
May we all be comforted very soon