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Serial in the ami- chava and shulem
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:06 pm
I’m not saying he’s going about it the right way. But I can understand how desperately he wants to extricate her from the mess. There is no reason she needs to remain tied to a man who faces a long prison term does not get along with her parents and she has a pretty weak connection to begin with.
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Dolly1




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:15 pm
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
I’m not saying he’s going about it the right way. But I can understand how desperately he wants to extricate her from the mess. There is no reason she needs to remain tied to a man who faces a long prison term does not get along with her parents and she has a pretty weak connection to begin with.


I disagree. Yes, the son in law made mistakes. But they all did. And marriage and loyalties to a husband don’t end when husband and wife r in trouble. U dont drop ur husband just like that without having the full picture. The father in law is wrong for forcing her to do things against her heart. She will live her whole life in Shaloms shadow. She will compare every man to him cuz she loved him, and he was good to her ...
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:24 pm
Or she will remarry a wonderful man and use the lessons she’s learned to build a solid relationship with healthy communication. Walking down the street several years later pushing her baby carriage she’ll hear shalom was just released from jail and she’ll wish him the best and be grateful for her life.

We’re talking about a kid that’s barely twenty and barely married six weeks.
We don’t drop spouses because they messed up. This scenario is very different. She is barely married and they hardly have a relationship. The guy is facing serious jail time. Maybe she should wait to see how much time he gets to decide. It’s a novel so I feel like he’s going to walk away free because that’s what happens in novels but in real life people in such serious legal trouble rarely walk away without paying some price.
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amother




Red
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:33 pm
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
I’m not saying he’s going about it the right way. But I can understand how desperately he wants to extricate her from the mess. There is no reason she needs to remain tied to a man who faces a long prison term does not get along with her parents and she has a pretty weak connection to begin with.


I can understand his feelings and I feel he is entitled to give his advice. But she is a married adult and he is being far too controlling. Ultimately the decision should be up to her.
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:44 pm
Agree Honeydew -- real life? like if my 20 year old just married daughter had this happen to her R"L?

I mean who is kidding who I think people are thinking like if their husband got in trouble chas v shalom they'd stick by him

this is a whole nother situation
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Kinor Dovid




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:49 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
Agree Honeydew -- real life? like if my 20 year old just married daughter had this happen to her R"L?

I mean who is kidding who I think people are thinking like if their husband got in trouble chas v shalom they'd stick by him

this is a whole nother situation

Also because he kept treating her like a stranger.
Which husband wouldn’t tell his wife EXACTLY what happened???
Exactly how the package got to him and by who and why? If my DH acted like shalom I’d have his head just for keeping me so in the dark like some little child of his!
I’m sure if he would treat her like a wife she would have more stamina to support him and herself and stand by him.
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berryshortcake




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:55 pm
Does anyone else think it is strange that she never spoke to a rav? Is that how a divorce would happen in real life?
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post  Tue, Sep 22 2020, 9:09 pm
berryshortcake wrote:
Does anyone else think it is strange that she never spoke to a rav? Is that how a divorce would happen in real life?


In my circles you ask a rav if your knife is meaty or dairy and if the bedeikah is kosher. Life decisions whether or not to stay married are made personally. I’m always seeing people consult rabbis on Imamother and in Jewish magazines and I’m kind of jealous that people have that in their lives. This being a Jewish magazine it is kind of surprising.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 12:58 am
For those saying they should cut their losses and divorce, would you say the same if he'd have been diagnosed with a life threatening disease? Or if he'd have had a serious accident and would be in a coma and then would take years for recovery? Shouldn't we teach our children how to face life's challenges? In this case we know Shalom isn't a bad person, he made a mistake, why shouldn't chava learn to stick by her man through the good times and the bad and grow though the tough times and become a stronger, more resilient person?
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amother




Teal
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 5:45 am
Her father is a terrible control freak. Chava seams to be an immature baby, who is impulsive and has bad communication skills.
Sholem made mistakes, ok. Be forgiving.
She keeps badgering him and keeps saying I get divorced, no wanna stay married....
And she should be able to stick up for herself against her father and do whatever she feels right for her life. She gives up her marriage because of her father? Because he doesn't agree? How mature is that?
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 7:27 am
OMigoodness hotpink you are too young to have adult children am I right?

totally different -- were one of our kids newly married to someone who chas v shalom was stricken with an accident or disease R"L you betcha we would all rally around

this is about character and responsibility and accountability and more and a life of insanity-- he made a "mistake"? drugs? addiction? drug dealing? criminal activities? jail? legal system? and more ramifications financially, socially, and most of all for a healthy marriage

newly married and no kids yet

he can't even communicate to her what even happened?!

what a nightmare scenario

would have to definitely gently explore with said newly married child what his or her options would be lest my dear child be falsely operating under a mistakenly applied code of what constitutes loyalty

would have him or her speak with trusted rov and mentors

IY"H nobody should ever be in such a nightmare scenario
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 12:16 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:

this is about character and responsibility and accountability and more and a life of insanity-- he made a "mistake"? drugs? addiction? drug dealing? criminal activities? jail? legal system? and more ramifications financially, socially, and most of all for a healthy marriage

newly married and no kids yet

he can't even communicate to her what even happened?!

what a nightmare scenario

would have to definitely gently explore with said newly married child what his or her options would be lest my dear child be falsely operating under a mistakenly applied code of what constitutes loyalty

would have him or her speak with trusted rov and mentors

IY"H nobody should ever be in such a nightmare scenario


Where you getting addiction drug dealing and criminal activities from?? I dont think the author has ever clearly said exactly what Shulem was involved in, or how much he was aware of and knew what he was doing.

On the contrary, the impression we've always gotten was that he was innocent. Yes he's handled the entire situation terribly, his communication is awful and his future appears bleak at the moment.

All I'm saying is that jumping to divorce at this stage, without having received guidance from a rav or marriage therapist, to me seems premature.

I say give this marriage a chance. They are 2 young, emotionally immature, but essentially good kids. Yes they need lots of therapy to learn healthier communication skills, and for them both to work on their issues.

We don't know if he's going to end up going to jail. If he's truly innocent and the lawyer wins the case in court, all charges may be dropped against him. We don't know yet.

I think this whole experience can end positively and if handled correctly they could end up with a strong, solid marriage built on trust and healthy communication.
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 12:26 pm
The story said he agreed to take a package for someone without checking its contenst in exchange for $$, and he'd done it before as a bachur. If he was not aware that that's illegal and that he was obviously smugling something he needs his head examined.

But his behavior after being arrested was more troubling, refusing his father in laws help, no apology to his in laws, his attitude.

I bless all of you with better sons-in-law. Because if chas vahsalom any of you had a sil who got your dd arrested 6 weeks after their wedding and behaved this way, you'd be dragging your dd to bais din, guaranteed.
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Genius




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 12:26 pm
I didn’t like the fact that the father declared that he’ll make sure Shalom gets a loong sentence (don’t remember the wording eggzackly). Makes me quite suspicious of the father. Why does he have so much power? It’s not only money. It sounds more than that.
It doesn’t make sense that if he has Noam he goes to jail and if he gets the father’s lawyer he can run off scot free. He’s either guilty or innocent.
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Genius




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 12:28 pm
Granted, money opens doors and good lawyers do better jobs but it isn’t black and white.
And to make sure he gets a sentence? How do you do that?
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 12:40 pm
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
The story said he agreed to take a package for someone without checking its contenst in exchange for $$, and he'd done it before as a bachur. If he was not aware that that's illegal and that he was obviously smugling something he needs his head examined.

But his behavior after being arrested was more troubling, refusing his father in laws help, no apology to his in laws, his attitude.

I bless all of you with better sons-in-law. Because if chas vahsalom any of you had a sil who got your dd arrested 6 weeks after their wedding and behaved this way, you'd be dragging your dd to bais din, guaranteed.


We don't know the full backstory. We don't know how sheltered he is. We don't know his relationship with the drug dealer. Maybe he was being blackmailed? Maybe he needs the money for something deeply shameful that he can't tell anyone about. There is so much we don't know.

My question is, where were the parents during the first 6 weeks? Why didn't they spot that their newlyweds were barely communicating?

I feel like there's a huge chunk of the puzzle that we don't have.
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 1:08 pm
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
We don't know the full backstory. We don't know how sheltered he is. We don't know his relationship with the drug dealer. Maybe he was being blackmailed? Maybe he needs the money for something deeply shameful that he can't tell anyone about. There is so much we don't know.

My question is, where were the parents during the first 6 weeks? Why didn't they spot that their newlyweds were barely communicating?

I feel like there's a huge chunk of the puzzle that we don't have.


Parents should stay out of newlyweds business unless they suspect abuse. I certainly hope my parents weren't analyzing our relationship and wondering if they should intervene in our communication skills when we were married a mere six weeks.
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clowny




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 1:26 pm
After reading this week I think we can all agree that the father is just extremely controlling and must have things go HIS way or else....

C’mon her parents jumped to divorce option immediately when hearing about the arrest. Without even discussing it with Chava. They are very wealthy, well to do, top notch people and things just MUST always go right and everything in life must be perfect. They can’t handle something going wrong. It’s just to embarrassing and humiliating for them. Therefore they wanted to see themselves out of this mess, on Chavas account, by being very selfish and talking chava into getting divorced.
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gamanit




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Sep 23 2020, 1:55 pm
SuperWify wrote:
A well written plot line is written before. Yes, you add and adit things provided you don’t change it drastically or there will be holes.

Fun fact- did you know that jk Rowling wrote all seven books before even releasing book #1? The plot has no room for holes and perhaps that’s why it is so loved. Not to mention well written.


That is incorrect. She did write the books as she went along and did not have the plot fully planned out. While the books are well written I've read them enough times to find inconsistencies.
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nelliebly




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Oct 05 2020, 7:43 pm
Missed the Sukkos issue of this . What happened???
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