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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 11:24 am
If someone is getting well paid do they lose the right to claim they are altruistically motivated?

Unless the person under discussion had the easy option of either making more money or doing less work doing something else I figuratively roll my eyes whenever I hear such people claiming to be altruistically motivated . Or even when I hear others talking about how much we owe them.

A farmer provides a much more essential service than most of those people and no one talks about how wonderful farmers are.

OTOH many of those who disagree with me do so strongly , so what is your view and why?
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 11:30 am
Some ppl are passionate about helping ppl
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 11:46 am
I don’t understand what you are saying.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 11:59 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
If someone is getting well paid do they lose the right to claim they are altruistically motivated?

Unless the person under discussion had the easy option of either making more money or doing less work doing something else I figuratively roll my eyes whenever I hear such people claiming to be altruistically motivated . Or even when I hear others talking about how much we owe them.

A farmer provides a much more essential service than most of those people and no one talks about how wonderful farmers are.

OTOH many of those who disagree with me do so strongly , so what is your view and why?


What are you talking about? I don't think I've ever in life (and I'm not young) heard someone use the word "altruistic" with reference to self.

However - there does IMHO need to be some aspect of 'voluntary'.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 12:40 pm
If anyone's in the mood to go down a rabbi hole years ago I heard a Rabbi Gottlieb tape on altruism. It's probably the same material on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_dKC1x8rvI

There's also a shiur on Hidabroot but when I hit the link I get the webpage.

I only remember it vaguely. But he redefines altruism. Usually there's a spark of ratzon to do something, for whatever motive we have that benefits us in some way. (My memory might be faulty.)
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 12:50 pm
tichellady wrote:
I don’t understand what you are saying.


I think what she is saying that well paid doctors aren't saving covid patients because of altruistic reasons but because they make bank doing so.

I come from a medical family. Everyone one of them went into medicine to make the cash register ding. I don't believe anyone of them did it to serve people.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 1:08 pm
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
I think what she is saying that well paid doctors aren't saving covid patients because of altruistic reasons but because they make bank doing so.

I come from a medical family. Everyone one of them went into medicine to make the cash register ding. I don't believe anyone of them did it to serve people.


Doctors are walking about calling themselves altruists?
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amother




Rose
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 1:19 pm
This reminds me...

On my first day of med school, everyone had to introduce themselves and tell us why they decided to start doing this.
We had some really nice speeches like; I always liked helping people, I want to make a difference in people's lives, I want to reciprocate whatever I received, etc.
After the lesson I overheard some classmates talking; "really impressive everyone's stories- bottom line they all do it for the money" Very Happy

Joking aside- I do not think that one negates the other. You can still do this as a job and have altruistic motives.
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 1:33 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
Doctors are walking about calling themselves altruists?


Obviously you never socialized with doctors. They may not use the words, "I am altruistic." But they treat themselves as above everyone else. They feel they deserve the nicest everything and the most respect.

It's wonderful that they are being hailed as heroes, but IMO firemen who signed up for the known danger or soldiers are the real heroes. They show a bravery beyond. Why aren't we applauding firemen everytime the go to work or soldiers everytime they are deployed?

Some doctors do whatever they have to when they want to avoid covid patients. And some doctors like infectious disease specialists signed up for this. Those who went into the profession knowing they would be expousing themselves like infectious disease doctors exhibit true valor.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 1:37 pm
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
Obviously you never socialized with doctors. They may not use the words, "I am altruistic." But they treat themselves as above everyone else. They feel they deserve the nicest everything and the most respect.

It's wonderful that they are being hailed as heroes, but IMO firemen who signed up for the known danger or soldiers are the real heroes. They show a bravery beyond. Why aren't we applauding firemen everytime the go to work or soldiers everytime they are deployed?

Some doctors do whatever they have to when they want to avoid covid patients. And some doctors like infectious disease specialists signed up for this. Those who went into the profession knowing they would be expousing themselves like infectious disease doctors exhibit true valor.


Most of my friends are doctors - so you are wrong there. (and having an over inflated ego is what you described - not altruism).

This business about applauding AFIK is not because doctors and nurses on mass have asked for applause. The hero narrative isn't owned by them.
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byisrael




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, May 20 2020, 1:38 pm
There are so many different kinds of people

I thing the majority of people (should) approach career choice like this:
I really like doing --------, how can I make money doing that

The people in the helping professions who make good money , really do care about people
The way the chose a career was:
I like helping people, how can I make money doing that?
Ok I'll become a ------.....
Basically the main motivator is the money - but they do care about the people

If they didn't care about people at all the could just become an actuary or an engineer or an architect or bank robber Wink
Point is if someone says they care about people and therefore went into a specific career - the probably do care about people.....
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farm




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 21 2020, 12:47 am
byisrael wrote:
There are so many different kinds of people

I thing the majority of people (should) approach career choice like this:
I really like doing --------, how can I make money doing that

The people in the helping professions who make good money , really do care about people
The way the chose a career was:
I like helping people, how can I make money doing that?
Ok I'll become a ------.....
Basically the main motivator is the money - but they do care about the people

If they didn't care about people at all the could just become an actuary or an engineer or an architect or bank robber Wink
Point is if someone says they care about people and therefore went into a specific career - the probably do care about people.....

Agree. And boy, being a doctor sure is a long, grueling, expensive way to eventually some day bring in a good living. Seriously, a doctor making big bucks = a specialist which = additional fellowships following residency, adding years at close to minimum wage. Assuming college at 18, the 300k salary is starting after age 30. If they were in it purely for the money, there are plenty of other career paths (how many years is law school again?).
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forgetit




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 21 2020, 1:13 am
I generally believe in humanity, and I would assume that most doctors and healthcare professionals go into the field because they care about people rather than a get-rich-quick option.
There may be a small percentage of doctors have other interests in the field, say, interest in research or science, and somehow their trajectory/career path led them to become a doctor for one reason or another. And they may very well be the ones who give other doctors a bad name.
There may be some in the field who think/thought being in medicine is a badge of prestige, or they need to prove their worth in this manner for some odd reason. You all know the Jewish mom jokes about their doctor sons...
And then there are those who may have started out with altruistic motives, but forgot all about that once power or grit, or whatever it is that they faced, affected them.
There's no black and white when it comes to real people.

And this isn't just for those in healthcare; there are many professions with similarities.
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 21 2020, 7:57 am
forgetit wrote:
I generally believe in humanity, and I would assume that most doctors and healthcare professionals go into the field because they care about people rather than a get-rich-quick option.
There may be a small percentage of doctors have other interests in the field, say, interest in research or science, and somehow their trajectory/career path led them to become a doctor for one reason or another. And they may very well be the ones who give other doctors a bad name.
There may be some in the field who think/thought being in medicine is a badge of prestige, or they need to prove their worth in this manner for some odd reason. You all know the Jewish mom jokes about their doctor sons...
And then there are those who may have started out with altruistic motives, but forgot all about that once power or grit, or whatever it is that they faced, affected them.
There's no black and white when it comes to real people.

And this isn't just for those in healthcare; there are many professions with similarities.


When reading your post it made me think of mash

You have Frank Burns. Who is in it for the money/power
Hawkeye/trapper/bj, who truly wanted to do the right thing.
Charles, who was in it for the prestige, but also genuinely wanted to help

But that's okay just people in general.
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imokay




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 21 2020, 8:06 am
Um, considering the amount of schooling, combined w tuition costs, doctors (not specialists) in the usa are definitely not in it for the money.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, May 21 2020, 8:15 am
imokay wrote:
Um, considering the amount of schooling, combined w tuition costs, doctors (not specialists) in the usa are definitely not in it for the money.

You forgot the outrageous insurance premiums doctors have to pay.....
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