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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 7:00 am
While I agree that it is political in that most Republicans feel that we have more to lose by staying shut down and Democrats feel that we have more to lose by chancing a second wave, I don't think that the Democrats are deliberately destroying the economy in order to win the next election because they will lose their own constituents.
When the news broke of cases in America, before the lockdowns, America changed it's shopping habits from casual shopping to hoarding of essentials. Every news report showed shoppers spending their paychecks on toilet paper. Apparently much of the apparel industry has been struggling for awhile and it wasn't only the lockdowns that bankrupted some iconic businesses. It was, however, the straw that broke the camel's back.
I agree that some closures are not necessary and no longer make sense but it depends on what goes on there. Singing, for example, is what can spread the virus in a religious setting and nobody sings on the beach but religious leaders are comparing the two. Religion may be more important to religious people than the beach is but in regards to the virus, the beach is safer.
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imaamy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 9:33 am
buy a suit for my son. I can't order it for pickup because I need to try it on. So I'll go to Target and try on several suits and buy one there.

That’s interesting because here dressing rooms have been closed. I think it’s worse to buy something, Take home, find it doesn’t fit and then return but that’s the way it has been.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 9:42 am
imaamy wrote:
buy a suit for my son. I can't order it for pickup because I need to try it on. So I'll go to Target and try on several suits and buy one there.

That’s interesting because here dressing rooms have been closed. I think it’s worse to buy something, Take home, find it doesn’t fit and then return but that’s the way it has been.


The problem with buying suits at the moment is that even if you can get one, most of them need alterations which puts the customer and the tailor in close proximity. At least in Monsey, the frum shops will drop off things to try on and this is probably true in most large frum communities.
Maybe you can watch a YouTube on how to alter the suit unless you already know how.
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:31 am
imaamy wrote:
buy a suit for my son. I can't order it for pickup because I need to try it on. So I'll go to Target and try on several suits and buy one there.

That’s interesting because here dressing rooms have been closed. I think it’s worse to buy something, Take home, find it doesn’t fit and then return but that’s the way it has been.


There have been articles on how stores are handling re-opening with best safety practices.

Beyond the obvious like requiring masks and enforcing social distancing with plexiglass shields at the counter, they are taking over steps.

Many of the stores are having any items tried on dropped in bins and the clothing is then steamed and disinfected. Some of the major stores are quarantining returns for 72 hours before returning to the floor.

I think this all begs the issue that the economy is not going to recover until the majority of people feel that it is safe to do so. Most people don't feel safe and so are avoiding doing anything but what is essential.

In terms of risk analysis, there is far less risk in being outside than being in a confined place so rational restrictions take that into consideration. The beaches are open but they are going to put in place regulations which attempt to control dense crowds. There is a difference between the density of crowds at Coney Island and most of the Jersey Shore for example and so social distancing is easier to do on Jersey or even Long Island beaches because you can control crowds by restricting parking and requiring the purchase of passes - which they do in Jersey.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:38 am
Amarante wrote:
There have been articles on how stores are handling re-opening with best safety practices.

Beyond the obvious like requiring masks and enforcing social distancing with plexiglass shields at the counter, they are taking over steps.

Many of the stores are having any items tried on dropped in bins and the clothing is then steamed and disinfected. Some of the major stores are quarantining returns for 72 hours before returning to the floor.

I think this all begs the issue that the economy is not going to recover until the majority of people feel that it is safe to do so. Most people don't feel safe and so are avoiding doing anything but what is essential.

In terms of risk analysis, there is far less risk in being outside than being in a confined place so rational restrictions take that into consideration. The beaches are open but they are going to put in place regulations which attempt to control dense crowds. There is a difference between the density of crowds at Coney Island and most of the Jersey Shore for example and so social distancing is easier to do on Jersey or even Long Island beaches because you can control crowds by restricting parking and requiring the purchase of passes - which they do in Jersey.


So how is it that you and I are saying the exact same thing; that it isn't only the lock down but it's also consumer confidence, and nobody attacks or bullies you?
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csa123




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:55 am
Amarante wrote:
There have been articles on how stores are handling re-opening with best safety practices.

Beyond the obvious like requiring masks and enforcing social distancing with plexiglass shields at the counter, they are taking over steps.

Many of the stores are having any items tried on dropped in bins and the clothing is then steamed and disinfected. Some of the major stores are quarantining returns for 72 hours before returning to the floor.

I think this all begs the issue that the economy is not going to recover until the majority of people feel that it is safe to do so. Most people don't feel safe and so are avoiding doing anything but what is essential.

In terms of risk analysis, there is far less risk in being outside than being in a confined place so rational restrictions take that into consideration. The beaches are open but they are going to put in place regulations which attempt to control dense crowds. There is a difference between the density of crowds at Coney Island and most of the Jersey Shore for example and so social distancing is easier to do on Jersey or even Long Island beaches because you can control crowds by restricting parking and requiring the purchase of passes - which they do in Jersey.


Lack of consumer confidence is an issue but continued closures begets lack of consumer confidence. If they begin to open up stores, people will be initially hesitant but if there isn't a major spike in cases, people will be more confident.
The government not allowing stores to reopen for fear of lack of consumer confidence is absurd. Let the stores open, and if there aren't consumers and they close, that's one thing and is basically how free-market capitalism works. But enforcing government closures due to lack of consumer confidence is a sure-fire way to continue the lack of consumer confidence.
Anecdotally, my parents live in Georgia, arguably the freest state right now. The first two weeks it was open they said there were very few people out. This week, they said there were noticeably more people. I'd be interested to see if they did a study comparing the number of visitors to a mall or restaurant in the two weeks after the order was lifted vs. 2 weeks after that.
There have been articles written about people going out though. Business Insider said 60,000 people came to GA from out of state after it opened.

I think the consumer confidence is a little bit of a red herring IMO. I think a lot of people will feel confident going out. But I guess we won't know until we try.

https://www.businessinsider.co.....020-5
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flowerpower




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:12 am
Small stores should DEFINITELY open with precautions. It’s time!
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:19 am
csa123 wrote:
Lack of consumer confidence is an issue but continued closures begets lack of consumer confidence. If they begin to open up stores, people will be initially hesitant but if there isn't a major spike in cases, people will be more confident.
The government not allowing stores to reopen for fear of lack of consumer confidence is absurd. Let the stores open, and if there aren't consumers and they close, that's one thing and is basically how free-market capitalism works. But enforcing government closures due to lack of consumer confidence is a sure-fire way to continue the lack of consumer confidence.
Anecdotally, my parents live in Georgia, arguably the freest state right now. The first two weeks it was open they said there were very few people out. This week, they said there were noticeably more people. I'd be interested to see if they did a study comparing the number of visitors to a mall or restaurant in the two weeks after the order was lifted vs. 2 weeks after that.
There have been articles written about people going out though. Business Insider said 60,000 people came to GA from out of state after it opened.

I think the consumer confidence is a little bit of a red herring IMO. I think a lot of people will feel confident going out. But I guess we won't know until we try.

https://www.businessinsider.co.....020-5


Where did you get that I said the government is not opening BECAUSE of lack of consumer confidence.

I am merely pointing out that the economy is not going to magically improve just because restrictions are lifted WITH NO ADHERENCE TO BEST PRACTICES RECOMMENDED BY CDC AND FOLLOWED BY OTHER COUNTRIES SUCCESSFULLY REOPENING.

People I know have changed how they live and don't plan to change taking precautions just because theoretically we can now eat in a restaurant or go to a shopping mall.

I am at the end of a major remodel which I have put on hold because I have absolutely no desire to have workmen in my home. If I had a plumbing or other emergency that would be different. I have no plans to eat at a restaurant because the idea of sitting in a confined space and breathing in the air from other customers who don't have masks isn't something I would risk. Who would take an Uber or public transportation unless it was absolutely necessary? No movies; no theater; no live performances - even if Frum people don't partake in these activities they are huge sectors of the economy. The entire entertainment industry has been shut down - how do you film television or movies safely and what actors are willing to take part. Not to mention that production generally requires insurance and who would insure since any person getting Corona would shut down the production effectively.

My dentist is now back open and I am due for a cleaning but I think I will put that off for awhile as well. No emergency and even though he has revamped his office and procedures including new filtration systems, I still have to get in an elevator in a medical building and expose myself potentially to infection - and so I weigh benefit against risk.

Polls show that the vast majority of people do not intend to go back to normal just because they theoretically can.

And why aren't businesses required to treat their workers in the same way the White House does? Everyone in the White House is tested frequently and contact tracing used - quarantines were imposed when testing showed staff members had Corona or tested positive. Obviously these are the same protections that we little people should have.

Also there are economists who believe that prematurely opening up without the kinds of restrictions used in other countries will actually HURT the economy as there are new waves of outbreaks. Montgomery Alabama had a deficit of ICU beds this week because of a rise in Covid19 cases. From what I have read, there is a great risk outside the metropolitan area because there is far more limited medical personnel and facilities available ON A PER CAPITA BASIS. People live far from hospitals and those hospitals are not first rate facilities.
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csa123




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:33 am
Amarante wrote:
Where did you get that I said the government is not opening BECAUSE of lack of consumer confidence.

I am merely pointing out that the economy is not going to magically improve just because restrictions are lifted WITH NO ADHERENCE TO BEST PRACTICES RECOMMENDED BY CDC AND FOLLOWED BY OTHER COUNTRIES SUCCESSFULLY REOPENING.

People I know have changed how they live and don't plan to change taking precautions just because theoretically we can now eat in a restaurant or go to a shopping mall.

I am at the end of a major remodel which I have put on hold because I have absolutely no desire to have workmen in my home. If I had a plumbing or other emergency that would be different. I have no plans to eat at a restaurant because the idea of sitting in a confined space and breathing in the air from other customers who don't have masks isn't something I would risk. Who would take an Uber or public transportation unless it was absolutely necessary? No movies; no theater; no live performances - even if Frum people don't partake in these activities they are huge sectors of the economy. The entire entertainment industry has been shut down - how do you film television or movies safely and what actors are willing to take part. Not to mention that production generally requires insurance and who would insure since any person getting Corona would shut down the production effectively.

My dentist is now back open and I am due for a cleaning but I think I will put that off for awhile as well. No emergency and even though he has revamped his office and procedures including new filtration systems, I still have to get in an elevator in a medical building and expose myself potentially to infection - and so I weigh benefit against risk.

Polls show that the vast majority of people do not intend to go back to normal just because they theoretically can.

And why aren't businesses required to treat their workers in the same way the White House does? Everyone in the White House is tested frequently and contact tracing used - quarantines were imposed when testing showed staff members had Corona or tested positive. Obviously these are the same protections that we little people should have.

Also there are economists who believe that prematurely opening up without the kinds of restrictions used in other countries will actually HURT the economy as there are new waves of outbreaks. Montgomery Alabama had a deficit of ICU beds this week because of a rise in Covid19 cases. From what I have read, there is a great risk outside the metropolitan area because there is far more limited medical personnel and facilities available ON A PER CAPITA BASIS. People live far from hospitals and those hospitals are not first rate facilities.


No need to yell. All I'm saying is they should let businesses open and then if there aren't enough consumers, the businesses will close. You're not willing to take the risks and that's your right. A lot of people are willing to go out. No one said everyone was going to go back to normal. But economic recovery is not binary. You have to start somewhere and let people spend money in businesses on some level. No one is saying that they should pack a stadium with 15,000 people. But there's no good reason at this point not to let small "non-essential" stores open with reasonable precautions in place.
And as the businesses vs. the White House- that's pretty obvious. Why isn't every business required to have a private jet for their employees to get to work? Why doesn't every business have multiple on-staff physicians to treat their employees when they get sick? Not every person is the president and not every business is the White House.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 12:33 pm
At least NYC is willing to loan money to small businesses to keep them in existence and I think that it's interest free. I just heard that today. Can anyone weigh in on this?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 12:35 pm
flowerpower wrote:
Small stores should DEFINITELY open with precautions. It’s time!


So maybe you know; what's the deal with the new business loan?
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amother




Red
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 12:43 pm
giselle wrote:
Not the poster you quoted of course, but why can’t the nail salon and shoe store open with social distancing/private appointments/disinfecting often, etc. Yes of course there will be those that don’t follow the law, but those people are already not following the law.


I love a good mani/pedi as much as the next person but I would happily give up mine for eternity if it means saving people’s lives. We can all buy new shoes online; if they don’t fit/suit you then send them back. I feel for people who can’t open their businesses but you run the risk of catching Covid-19 and giving it to your family. I personally don’t want my kids being sacrificed in that way so I would rather be broke with ugly nails than put my family at risk.
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giselle




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 1:00 pm
amother [ Red ] wrote:
I love a good mani/pedi as much as the next person but I would happily give up mine for eternity if it means saving people’s lives. We can all buy new shoes online; if they don’t fit/suit you then send them back. I feel for people who can’t open their businesses but you run the risk of catching Covid-19 and giving it to your family. I personally don’t want my kids being sacrificed in that way so I would rather be broke with ugly nails than put my family at risk.

Has nothing to do with wanting a manicure and everything to do with not letting the economy fall apart. I explained this in my first post. (I happen to do my own nails all the time, but that literally has nothing to do with this conversation.)
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momsrus




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 1:12 pm
southernbubby wrote:
While I agree that it is political in that most Republicans feel that we have more to lose by staying shut down and Democrats feel that we have more to lose by chancing a second wave, I don't think that the Democrats are deliberately destroying the economy in order to win the next election because they will lose their own constituents.
When the news broke of cases in America, before the lockdowns, America changed it's shopping habits from casual shopping to hoarding of essentials. Every news report showed shoppers spending their paychecks on toilet paper. Apparently much of the apparel industry has been struggling for awhile and it wasn't only the lockdowns that bankrupted some iconic businesses. It was, however, the straw that broke the camel's back.
I agree that some closures are not necessary and no longer make sense but it depends on what goes on there. Singing, for example, is what can spread the virus in a religious setting and nobody sings on the beach but religious leaders are comparing the two. Religion may be more important to religious people than the beach is but in regards to the virus, the beach is safer.


With all that's going on, I will make sure to vote in a Republican now.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 1:23 pm
To me it seems, that what drives the economy is what is in demand. Overnight, certain things became important that barely sold before and things that had been hot items were now almost irrelevant.
I can't blame anyone for wanting our old life back. I was happier with buying a new lipstick than a new mask but the businesses that made money off of lipstick better find a product that is in demand if they want to succeed.
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amother




Lemon
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 1:25 pm


Anything you can do I can do it better
No you can’t
Yes I can
No you can’t
Yes I can, yes I can yes I can
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fleetwood




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 1:42 pm
amother [ Red ] wrote:
I love a good mani/pedi as much as the next person but I would happily give up mine for eternity if it means saving people’s lives. We can all buy new shoes online; if they don’t fit/suit you then send them back. I feel for people who can’t open their businesses but you run the risk of catching Covid-19 and giving it to your family. I personally don’t want my kids being sacrificed in that way so I would rather be broke with ugly nails than put my family at risk.


How do you socially distance during a manicure or wax?
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giselle




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 1:46 pm
fleetwood wrote:
How do you socially distance during a manicure or wax?

You both wear masks. Ideally, manicurist has some kind of screen like the cashiers have. Must be very careful sanitizing, etc. I’m not a manicurist so haven’t really worked through the details. The point is there are ways for small businesses to open safely. Of course if a customer isn’t comfortable they won’t go. I’m not even sure if I’d go myself right now. But they should legally be allowed to open.
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ra_mom




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 1:46 pm
BH no new cases reported as of today in NY!
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Einikel




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 1:46 pm
ra_mom wrote:
BH no new cases reported as of today in NY!


State?
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