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Why has New York the highest Covid19 death rate per capita?
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:52 am
Many of the reasons listed here are just as relevant in other locales that experienced a drastically lower per capita death rate.

- The outbreaks in senior residences: The percentage of NY's total death toll that are due to outbreaks in homes is actually much lower than in other places. (E.g. Italy 50%, Canada 70%, NY 35%).
- International flights: Many ,many (most?) governments failed to halt international travel early enough. Quebec is actually a good example here, because the province had spring break from March 1st to March 12th. A significant percentage of the population traveled to Europe and returned to school and work for several days before the lock down started. This is largely the reason for the severity of the outbreak in Quebec vs. Ontario.
- Health care limitations: We all remember the total chaos in Spain and Italy. Their death rates are high, but still a fraction of NY's and NJ's.


By eliminating the above options, it seems clear that NY's disadvantage was:
1. Very high population density.
2. Several days delay in instituting lock down. Studies are showing that each day earlier has had a significant impact on the outcomes.
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amother




Red
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:54 am
I simply don't believe that any of the elected officials mentioned wanted people to die.
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Squishy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:56 am
fleetwood wrote:
It's simple. He wanted people to die so it looks bad for Trump. Or, the seniors mostly vote Republican so he had them murdered. These are just two of the theories going around.


Cuomo directly blamed it on Trump. The order murdering the elderly has Cuomo's signature not Trump's on it.

This happened in 4 Democraticly controlled states with the health director of Pennsylvania removing her mother from a nursing home and placing her in a hotel. This is not an accident. It is foreseeable that if you put highly infectious people in a nursing home, there will be a high death rate.

Why didn't he put them in the Jacob Javits Center which was converted to a hospital?
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:57 am
fleetwood wrote:
It's simple. He wanted people to die so it looks bad for Trump. Or, the seniors mostly vote Republican so he had them murdered. These are just two of the theories going around.


Its difficult to believe that anyone with two brain cells to rub together believes either.

As to nursing homes ... these were largely people who already lived in nursing homes, and were being discharged from the hospital. Had they been kept in the hospital until they tested negative -- which could take several weeks, there would not have been sufficient hospital beds for those who were very ill. In fact, the reversed policy may well be the reason NYC hasn't entered Phase 1 yet.

At no time were nursing homes required to take people they could not handle. That was actually part of the order.

In retrospect, it was a bad idea. But it wasn't malicious.

Funny how its the same people who are screaming to open up the economy, we need to shop and vacation, and if people die, well, that's the way it is, who are decrying not keeping everyone in the hospital until they test negative.
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amother




Khaki
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:58 am
The subway is a big part of it. And so many people from NJ work in NY (and take the subways) or travel there for other reasons. And essential workers are still taking the subway.

I think the biggest reason is that it came in through the airports before anyone was being told to even be careful or to know what to look for. So it spread a lot before any precautions were in place. Most of the other places in the country shut down way before they had so many cases.
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amother




White
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 10:58 am
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
Many of the reasons listed here are just as relevant in other locales that experienced a drastically lower per capita death rate.

- The outbreaks in senior residences: The percentage of NY's total death toll that are due to outbreaks in homes is actually much lower than in other places. (E.g. Italy 50%, Canada 70%, NY 35%).
- International flights: Many ,many (most?) governments failed to halt international travel early enough. Quebec is actually a good example here, because the province had spring break from March 1st to March 12th. A significant percentage of the population traveled to Europe and returned to school and work for several days before the lock down started. This is largely the reason for the severity of the outbreak in Quebec vs. Ontario.
- Health care limitations: We all remember the total chaos in Spain and Italy. Their death rates are high, but still a fraction of NY's and NJ's.


By eliminating the above options, it seems clear that NY's disadvantage was:
1. Very high population density.
2. Several days delay in instituting lock down. Studies are showing that each day earlier has had a significant impact on the outcomes.


Cuomo has admitted that deaths that occurred in hospitals after patients were transferred there from nursing homes weren't counted as nursing home deaths so I don't think the statistic there is reliable. If you got it in a nursing home, and then were transferred to a hospital and died in the hospital, I still think that should be counted as a nursing home death.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuo.....plete
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flowerpower




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:01 am
For starters, a lot of patients were neglected in hospitals and died because of that. We all know that well.

Second of all- in a very dense city the virus spreads faster

Third of all- they started taking it serious a week or two too late
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:08 am
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
The death per number infected is lower in New York than in the heavily effected European countries.

So another way to answer your question is - the virus spread more in NY and NJ than elsewhere.


The problem is that the "registered cases" might not be representative of "total cases"... In countries where they do not test enough, registered cases might be low, as a result fatalities per registered cases might seem high, just because cases are underreported...
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:10 am
flowerpower wrote:
For starters, a lot of patients were neglected in hospitals and died because of that. We all know that well.

Second of all- in a very dense city the virus spreads faster

Third of all- they started taking it serious a week or two too late


So you would say that there really was a higher fatality rate, not just a higher infection rate among the population?
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Squishy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:15 am
amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:
Its difficult to believe that anyone with two brain cells to rub together believes either.

As to nursing homes ... these were largely people who already lived in nursing homes, and were being discharged from the hospital. Had they been kept in the hospital until they tested negative -- which could take several weeks, there would not have been sufficient hospital beds for those who were very ill. In fact, the reversed policy may well be the reason NYC hasn't entered Phase 1 yet.

At no time were nursing homes required to take people they could not handle. That was actually part of the order.

In retrospect, it was a bad idea. But it wasn't malicious.

Funny how its the same people who are screaming to open up the economy, we need to shop and vacation, and if people die, well, that's the way it is, who are decrying not keeping everyone in the hospital until they test negative.


They had excess capacity at Jacob Javits which is set up as a hospital. Nursing homes are known to have infections run rampant through them.

If the director of health in Pennsylvania didn't know this would be the outcome, then why did she remove her mother from her nursing home Ahmed place her in a hotel?

It was malicious because it was known that it was an idiotic thing to do at the time. If Democrats are this stupid, then they don't belong in government because they murdered every elderly person that died from these directives.

Why did Coumo try to gaslight the voters and say this is on Trump?
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:18 am
Ora in town wrote:
The problem is that the "registered cases" might not be representative of "total cases"... In countries where they do not test enough, registered cases might be low, as a result fatalities per registered cases might seem high, just because cases are underreported...


Yes. Whats your point?

Two totally different things.

1) Spread of the virus

2) Deaths

you need to address both. You can't just look at number deaths, and ignore infection rate, which you did in your OP.
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:19 am
Squishy wrote:
Simply not true. If you look at the maps of the neighborhoods in NYC, then you will see the fallacy of your statement.

Just want to say that half the plasma donors are chassidish. They make up a much smaller percentage of the population.


Also simply not true: Cuomo murdering people to spite the president.
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fleetwood




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:23 am
Squishy wrote:
Cuomo directly blamed it on Trump. The order murdering the elderly has Cuomo's signature not Trump's on it.

This happened in 4 Democraticly controlled states with the health director of Pennsylvania removing her mother from a nursing home and placing her in a hotel. This is not an accident. It is foreseeable that if you put highly infectious people in a nursing home, there will be a high death rate.

Why didn't he put them in the Jacob Javits Center which was converted to a hospital?


I didn't give any opinion on whether I accept these theories. Just responding to a question posted.
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Yael




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:31 am
Please refrain from bringing politics into this discussion. You may start a spinoff in the politics section to address the possible political reasons.
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happy12




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:42 am
The population rate is not correct. It os most probably 20./. Higher as people living here illegally are not counted and people who did not fill out the census are not counted.
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Squishy




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:45 am
happy12 wrote:
The population rate is not correct. It os most probably 20./. Higher as people living here illegally are not counted and people who did not fill out the census are not counted.


Illegal immigrants are counted. There's no distinguishing illegal immigrants for purposes of population counting. The wrong side one that court battle.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 11:50 am
amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:
Its difficult to believe that anyone with two brain cells to rub together believes either.

As to nursing homes ... these were largely people who already lived in nursing homes, and were being discharged from the hospital. Had they been kept in the hospital until they tested negative -- which could take several weeks, there would not have been sufficient hospital beds for those who were very ill. In fact, the reversed policy may well be the reason NYC hasn't entered Phase 1 yet.

At no time were nursing homes required to take people they could not handle. That was actually part of the order.

In retrospect, it was a bad idea. But it wasn't malicious.

Funny how its the same people who are screaming to open up the economy, we need to shop and vacation, and if people die, well, that's the way it is, who are decrying not keeping everyone in the hospital until they test negative.


Nobody said keep patients in hospital until they test negative. There were new hospitals created that could have been used to house contagious nursing home residents.

Even though the order said nursing homes did not have to take people they could not handle, the
order stated that nursing homes could not refuse to accept residents who were positive for
covid-19.

As a DIRECT RESULT of that order - done only by DEMOCRAT GOVERNORS - thousands of patients in nursing homes died. These DEMOCRAT GOVERNORS have blood on their hands!
HALF of all Coronavirus deaths are from nursing home residents and employees!
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amother




Brunette
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 12:02 pm
Can’t take away the fact that there was lots of neglect in the hospitals. Many first hand accounts. And those who survived are suffering immensely from neglectful side effects. Infections, bed sores, damaged lungs etc.
the hospitals were very overwhelmed and they did not make use of the navy ship and the Javitz center. Why is it even closed if their are expecting another wave? NYC hospitals are overwhelmed on a normal day too, without COVID...

When Cuomo was directly asked about this he said “ Everyone knew that people will die from this and the old is the most vulnerable" very compassionate.

Florida has a much larger older population and their death rate doesn’t compare to NY.
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pause




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 12:06 pm
Ora in town wrote:
It's not 10 times, only 2-4 times...

Delete


Last edited by pause on Fri, May 22 2020, 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pause




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, May 22 2020, 12:11 pm
Ora in town wrote:
It's not 10 times, only 2-4 times...

According to the calculations I made a week or two ago, you're right. Spain had 38/100k and NYS (note, not NYC) had 95/100k.
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