What bothers me about separate dancing

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:14 pm

CiCi wrote:

It's interesting that your family seems to be the only family in history and in the world today with a minhag of this particular way of doing a mitzvah tantz.

Don’t be silly and over exaggerate. There is no minhag for a father to hug his daughter at the mitzvah tanz. My family does however have the minhag of mitzvah tanz. And my father hugging me does not mean our mitzvah tanz was wrong.

I’d also be interested to know how you know for a fact that my family is the only one in the whole world in which fathers hug their daughters at the mitzvah tanz.

pause

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:20 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

The bolded is up for debate.

If you would not have a mitzva tantz, would your father hug you at your wedding?

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:24 pm

pause wrote:

The bolded is up for debate.

If you would not have a mitzva tantz, would your father hug you at your wedding?

Of course. My father would hug me at someone else’s wedding too. Or in the street or anywhere. He’s my father. My grandfather would
Hug me anywhere too.

So does that mean my mitzvah tanz was acceptable or not?

pause

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:30 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Acceptable according to whom? In my circles an adult relative hugging another adult relative of opposite gender in public would be scandalous.

Same like PDA between a couple, to some it's acceptable and even admirable and to others it's improper. Usually those who feel like these things are acceptable don't also have a mitzva tantz. It's incongruous.

Mommyg8

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:32 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Yup. My father would hug me too. But we did not have a mitzvah tantz.

And nobody would ever describe us as "bummy" (not even my Chassidishe friends).

amother

Salmon

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:33 pm

Love my sons, quite close relationships B"H.
Would not want to dance with them in public at their chassunahs.
Would be equally awkward for both of us and for all of us.
We can be super close and enjoy many special moments without that.
(not chasidish)

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:40 pm

pause wrote:

You wrote the bolded is up for debate. And then asked if my father would hug me if we didn’t have mitzvah tanz. So I was wondering if the fact that he would have hugged me made my mitzvah tanz more or less wrong. (In your opinion)

And it seems like today you learned something new. Because I am part of a community that has the minhag of mitzvah tanz going back as many generations as your community. And none of us think hugging your father in public is something you would even blink twice at. And I can tell you something more scandalous. When my older brother got engaged, my aunt hugged my father and even gave him a small peck on the cheek. And my aunt is actually chassidish. Very respectable chassidish. If you live in boro park your probably have heard of her name. I guess you learn new things every day. Today I learned that it is scandalous in some communities for a father to hug his daughter at her wedding. Today you learned that there is a community that does mitzvah tanz even though they don’t believe fathers hugging daughters are scandalous.

amother

Teal

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:46 pm

pause wrote:

The halacha against couples PDA is not at all that of parent/child relationship.
I don't have a drop of Hungarian blood, but I've been to weddings where I see grown chassidish men kissing their grandmother, either on the face, or giving her the hand to kiss and kissing her hand. And vice versa.
Not my cup of tea and not my family, but "PDA" between family members is not at all comparable to couple PDA.

pause

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:48 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

I wasn't saying it's the same thing. I was equating how something that is acceptable to some is scandalous to others. It was just an example, not an equation.

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:49 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Exactly. And I admit to having Hungarian blood flowing freely through my veins. But parents and grandparents kissing their offspring is completely normal and acceptable.

pause

Sun, May 24 2020, 10:50 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

It's up for debate, meaning some consider it acceptable and some don't. In my circles, it would be inappropriate and have everyone "in the audience" cringing. And my family isn't super ultra chassidish. (I already answered that in my previous post.)

mommy3b2c wrote:

And it seems like today you learned something new. Because I am part of a community that has the minhag of mitzvah tanz going back as many generations as your community. And none of us think hugging your father in public is something you would even blink twice at. And I can tell you something more scandalous. When my older brother got engaged, my aunt hugged my father and even gave him a small peck on the cheek. And my aunt is actually chassidish. Very respectable chassidish. If you live in boro park your probably have heard of her name. I guess you learn new things every day. Today I learned that it is scandalous in some communities for a father to hug his daughter at her wedding. Today you learned that there is a community that does mitzvah tanz even though they don’t believe fathers hugging daughters are scandalous.

Nice summary.

tigerwife

Sun, May 24 2020, 11:02 pm

CiCi wrote:

Being Chassidish myself and attending many Chassidishe mitzva tantzes from all across the Chassidisha spectrum, I've never seen the kallah dancing. When it's with brothers, fathers, grandfather's and in-laws the kallah holds a gartel and sometimes may walk a bit back a bit back and forth. When it's with the chosson the couple goes back and forth, they are not dancing. Have you seen anyone dancing the way chosson-kallah "dance" at a mitzva tantz?

Do you mean that at the mitzva tantzes you’ve been to, the kallah does not hold her own father or grandfather’s hands, but uses a gartel instead?

I have never seen a kallah dance with a gartel with her father or grandfather. It is always with handholding. I’ve also been to a wide range of mitzva tantz, from rebbish to barely heimish.

And no, I wouldn’t really call the “dancing” immodest for the rest of the males to view, unless they generally do not oook at women at all; it’s basically “shuckling”.

Brothers, uncles and in laws do use a gartel.

ChossidMom

Mon, May 25 2020, 3:12 am

I'm presently Chassidish but I wasn't always. I hung out in a pretty modern crowd. I remember being appalled when men came over and danced around the women or something like that. This is not separate dancing. It's mixed dancing.
There is a reason for the mechitza. Many Dati Leumi weddings have mixed seating but a mechitza for the dancing. There is no excuse whatsoever in halacha for women to allow themselves to be watched by men while they (the women) dance. Women, on the other hand are totally allowed to watch men dance.
Mixed dancing is asur, no matter what denomination of orthodoxy you belong to. And men have no business coming to watch the women. If they do - it doesn't mean they are allowed.

amother

Azure

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:18 am

moonstone wrote:

How very sad.

Why???
I think it’s beautiful.
My niece (under 12) has a uncle from the other side who always hugs her. She hates it. It’s creepy even if he doesn’t mean to be.
My sister and brother in law always watch with eagle eyes when he comes to visit. Ugh

Hugging of opposite gender is only for parents and grandparents.
And in private, husband and wife.

moonstone

Mon, May 25 2020, 9:40 am

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

That's your opinion of who can hug and where, AMOTHER.

And obviously I didn't mean forced hugging! Sheesh. 🙄