What bothers me about separate dancing

pause

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:14 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Really? How do you know? I’m not sure how old exactly the minhag is. I’m assuming that it’s a few 100 years. Does it specifically say that the father is not allowed to hug is daughter, the brothers can’t hold the Kallahs hands, and that the chossom and Kallah need to look at the floor?

These behaviors are anytime considered inappropriate in public and the only time typically inappropriate behaviors are engaged in publicly is when there is a minhag to davka do it, such as chosson and kallah holding hands after chuppah. Otherwise, no, it is not appropriate among chassidim for a father to hug his grown daughter in public nor for adult brothers and sisters to hold hands.

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:15 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

I'm curious about how it came into your family? Chassidish ancestors, or another means?
Because we have some chassidish cousins who do their mitzvah tantz in 15 minutes and yeshivish who do an hour's long mitzvah tantz. And then we have some cousins where the families aren't chassidsh, but some of them have chassidish ancestors, and they just do whatever their mechutanim agree to.
Some of the mechutanim have no clue what a mitzvah tantz is.
So, some of them have no chassidish blood, yet do it because of their mechutanim...
And then my siblings mitzva tantz, we had the kallah's and chosson's friends took it as an invite for couple's dancing...(Luckily for us, the hotel gave us a curfew.)

My family has Hungarian “heimish” roots. We
Have a lot of chassidish minhagim. Keep in mind, just because today being chassidish means you wear e a shteimel and many other superficial things, does not mean that’s how chassidus started. In fact, the two chassidus that are the closest to the real thing are the ones that place the least importance on clothing and outward appearances.

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:16 pm

pause wrote:

Considered inappropriate by chassidim. Not considered inappropriate by many others.

pause

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:19 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Considered inappropriate by chassidim. Not considered inappropriate by many others.

Exactly. And since it's a chassidishe minhag, the way you do it is not a real chassidishe mitzva tantz.
(with the adverb "real" describing the word "chassidishe" and not mitzva tantz cuz who I am to say what it is or isn't.)

crust

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:24 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

It doesnt say. This is not some shtikel gemara or shulchan urach that you can see inside.

I know because I'm cassidish and it's a chassidish Minhag and I know what the chassidishe rebbes said about it and how they conducted themselves from reading their seforim and the seforim of their talmidim.

You don't have to trust me.

Go back to your ancestors and see what they say. What do they think a mitzva tantz should look like?

I'm not here to be right. I just like to have intellectually honest conversations.

Last edited by crust on Sun, May 24 2020, 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:26 pm

pause wrote:

I can agree with that statement. My mitzvah tantz was real. But maybe not really chassidish.

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:31 pm

crust wrote:

It doesnt say. This is not some shtikel gemara or shulchan urach that you can see inside.

I know because I'm cahsidish and it's a chassidish Minhag and I know what the chassidishe rebbes said about it and how they conducted themselves from reading their seforim.

You don't have to trust me. Go back to your ancestors and see what they say. What do they think a mitzva tantz should look like?

It’s my families minhag going back through the generations the same as it’s your families minhag. I doubt there were any rules such as you are describing. As pause mentioned, these rules are chassidish rules at all times. So for example, a father would never hug his daughter in public so he won’t either hug her at a mitzvah tantz. But since there is absolutely nothing halachically wrong with a father hugging his daughter in public. That does not in any way make it less of a mitzvah tantz.

crust

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:35 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I don't remember saying that it's less of a mitzvah tantz.

It would be called a bummy (or insert whichever name you call it Smile

) one. That's all.

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:44 pm

crust wrote:

I don't remember saying that it's less of a mitzvah tantz.

It would be called a bummy (or insert whichever name you call it Smile

) one. That's all.

Ok. I can hear that. Everything I do would be considered bummy anyway. So it makes sense my mitzvah tanz was bummy, I guess.

suremom

Sun, May 24 2020, 6:45 pm

crust wrote:

There were older Zeides/uncles that did that but they were definitely on the bu... side.

I personally never saw my Zeides as much as opening their eyes throughout mitzvah tantz let alone pull chosson kallah into a circle or form a circle around them.

It's definitely considered bummy today.

Its not considered bummy at all. My father, an old timer as they come, would open encircle chosson kallah. My DH chosson rebbe even taught them to walk back with kallah towards womens side after.

amother

Teal

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:02 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Ok. I can hear that. Everything I do would be considered bummy anyway. So it makes sense my mitzvah tanz was bummy, I guess.

I don't think so.
What you described doesn't sound bummy to me, even if its not what would be done at Crust's and Pause's and their circles, nor mine.
I don't think it'll happen at my childrens' wedding either, but if those are your standards, there is nothing bummy about it.
I didn't have chassidish grandparent's, and DH's chassidish grandparents weren't well enough to attend the wedding, so I didn't have any grandparents dancing at my mitva tantz. My father isn't the emotional type, nor am I. For me, it would be super awkward to have that type of display of affection in public, but I heard that that there are very Hungarian, chassidish type dads who hug their DD, and she cries on their shoulder.
As I said, I didn't have it, and I never saw it, just what I heard...
But again, the only off type of mitzvah tantz I would consider bummy would be romantic couple dancing, which is not what you described.

amother

Pink

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:44 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

asmileaday and amother pink: Enjoy. The rest of the internet will have a field day watching the clips, and debating you entire life history.

I honestly don't care. I should give up the chance to dance with my son on his wedding day just to keep the yentas at bay? Let them talk, but I want this once in a lifetime opportunity.

amother

Pewter

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:47 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

You just described my dad to a T. Heads on each other's shoulders, extremely emotional.
I'll readily admit that this isn't the chassidish norm but my family is still ultra chassidish and super sheltered in every other way.
And no, clips weren't circulating because nobody in the family that stays for Mitzvah Tantz even owns a smartphone besides me. I have more brains than to share such a clip.

asmileaday

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:50 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

asmileaday and amother pink: Enjoy. The rest of the internet will have a field day watching the clips, and debating you entire life history.

Hey firstly I said "can't promise" not that I definitely will.
And secondly, I honestly wouldn't care.
Let yentas yent. You can't live your life with that fear, especially if you don't feel that you're doing anything wrong.

CiCi

Sun, May 24 2020, 9:36 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

It's interesting that your family seems to be the only family in history and in the world today with a minhag of this particular way of doing a mitzvah tantz.

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, May 24 2020, 9:51 pm

CiCi wrote:

It's interesting that your family seems to be the only family in history and in the world today with a minhag of this particular way of doing a mitzvah tantz.

You'll need to modify your Phd dissertation on the topic with the new information you've uncovered.