Ami article - saying no - does it go too far?

amother

Sun, May 24 2020, 7:34 am

This week's Ami had an article about someone going for therapy and one of the first things she learned was the word "no". The article was poking fun at this mindset and the author decided to use the following story as an example - a woman's father was in the hospital and was very sick, her husband was with her father when he passed away. The husband called a neighbor and friend to go over to the wife to break the news to her gently, but the neighbor/friend (presumably going to therapy and learning the word "no") demured, and said it was too hard. The husband pushed anyway, and assumed that she had made the call. He called his wife an hour later to discuss funeral arrangements and his wife, not knowing that her father was niftar, threw up.

The article blamed the friend/neighbor for using the word "no" inappropriately. It ends off by saying "would her therapist be proud"?

My reaction was - YES! I am not a therapist and I am not currently in therapy. But I totally understand that breaking the news that someone's father just passed away might be too much for someone who is in a bad place herself.

Thoughts?

amother

Vermilion

Sun, May 24 2020, 7:41 am

I can completely empathize with someone not in an emotional place to gently break horrific news to a friend. The blame is on the husband - she said no and he wouldn't hear it. Instead of calling his wife himself (why exactly couldn't he call her himself if he had time to call the neighbor?) he puts this personal and painful task on someone outside the family. And then assumes she did it even when she said no?

The whole thing doesn't make sense. I am hoping this is just a poorly made up example and didn't actually happen.

amother

Plum

Sun, May 24 2020, 7:41 am

This lady was considered a good friend she should have dealt with it differently and told the husband I’m really sorry but I don’t feel comfortable doing this. I did understand what the author was trying to say since I’ve seen it in real life then 2 years later wake up and realize they were under there there’s posts spell.

Kiwi13

Sun, May 24 2020, 7:44 am

I didn't read the article, but it seems irresponsible to assume the neighbor followed through on the request after she explicitly said no. I think it's fine to ask, it's fine to say no, and it's important to RESPECT BOUNDARIES. Not every person has the same limits. This is a hard situation all around, but no good would come to anyone from having an unwilling (and possibly emotionally floundering) messenger break the news. To me, this story HIGHLIGHTS THE NEED to learn to say no and stand your ground!

amother

Vermilion

Sun, May 24 2020, 7:51 am

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

But OP said she did say she couldn't do it to the husband and he argued back and assumed that she would do it even though she said no. And who is to say a therapist told her to say no? If my neigbor made a request like that I wouldn't need to consult a therapist to say that it was an inappropriate request and I couldn't do it.

amother

Plum

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:02 am

Realize the husband was dealing with the death and all the arrangements for his father in law funeral. The husband did say he wants someone to tell her in person he was nervous how she would react, as one of her closest friends she should have thought about her friend and not just herself . The point of the article was are therapists making you say no and you don’t think of anything else around you.

Kiwi13

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:10 am

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

A responsible therapist would also address CONTEXT. Saying no to making your kids dinner isn't the same as saying no to hosting your in-laws for dinner for the next 5 weeks just because they ask. You might not feel like doing either of them, but one is a responsibility and one is a favor. Being able to weigh your discomfort vs. the needs of the other person is also an important skill in knowing when to say no. If it'll be mildly annoying for you to drive 20 minutes out of your way to drop off a meal to an elderly neighbor recovering from hip surgery, you should probably do it. If it'll drive you to your emotional breaking point, you probably shouldn't. You know?

amother

Plum

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:14 am

Kiwi13 wrote:

Your completely right! But that’s the thing the therapists aren’t teaching when yes and when no to say no. As someone who lost a parent I was so happy when my good friends came over to be with me when it happened. I would be hurt if those close friends stayed away.

amother

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:26 am

I had this scenario happening to me, too. When I lost a parent my husband called a neighbor/friend to break the news to me, and she did come and she did. But if I knew that my friend was going through a hard time and she just didn't have the emotional capacity at the moment to do it, while I might be a little hurt at the time, she has to think about herself as well. If she can't handle it emotionally,then she shouldn't.

I just asked my husband what he would have thought if the friend said no, and he said, I wouldn't think anything, I know it's a hard thing to ask of someone.

I don't know, am I overthinking this?

ora_43

Sun, May 24 2020, 8:44 am

That sounds strange. Are we really this worried that grown adults won't be able to tell the difference between standing up for themselves, and only ever saying 'no' to anything?

If my friend says 'no' to giving me a ride to an event, I don't assume that she would also refuse to pour water on me if I was on fire.

I mean by that same logic saying 'yes' would be just as much of a problem. Maybe the best friend said 'yes' to breaking the news to her friend, but then another person called, and she also said 'yes' to picking another friend's kid up from daycare, and in the end she ran into her one friend's house, said "your-father-died-so-sorry-byeee," raced to her car, got to the daycare late, and now everybody involved is traumatized.

amother

Taupe

Sun, May 24 2020, 9:43 am

The example used in the article is not a good one!
I don't think that's what therapist have in mind when they teach their client how to say no. (Some ppl truthfully need to learn how to say "no", from my experience, some ppl also need to learn how to say "yes"!)
Husband should not have assumed anything especially since neighbor said she couldn't do it.
(I didn't read the article !)

behappy2

Sun, May 24 2020, 11:08 am

It highlights an issue in therapy but apparently did a poor job of it.

The issue in general is ppl learning skills they can't internalize. Like teaching a psychopath empathy or teaching someone who thinks the world rests on their shoulders to say no. It's not sufficient and needs the deep work to make it be a part of the psyche. You can read a book for the same price, no need to see a therapist.

zaq

Sun, May 24 2020, 12:52 pm

Disclaimer: I didn't read the story or this thread, and am basing my response solely on the OP's OP: The author is ignorant and the dh a fool. What sort of dh would ask someone else to tell his dw that her father was niftar? This is news you want to hear from a friend? This is news you hear from the dear departed's doctor or from your own nearest and dearest. The scenario as set up makes zero sense, which leads me to believe that the author has never lost a loved one and is breaking the first cardinal rule of writing, which is "Write what you know."

A more logical request might have been to ask the friend to arrange for minyanim (not really, though; asking a man would make more sense) or food for the shiva or transportation to the funeral or just to inform the neighborhood--AFTER he breaks the news to his wife.

amother

Bronze

Sun, May 24 2020, 1:12 pm

These magazines are so ridiculous and are becoming more and more unhealthy as time goes on.
Just another extreme view that is really unhelpful.
Making fun of using the word "no"?
There is chessed, yes. And there is also gevurah.
You need gevurah to balance out chessed.
Extreme giving, and never using the word no, can also be harmful.
The Torah even uses the word chessed to describe incest- a horrible, abusive act that is the result of no boundaries. Too much of a "good thing" aint good.
Who approves these ridiculous articles?
And people who go to therapy to learn to use the word no are usually people who were brought up with no sense of self, no sense of what is too much/boundaries, are so accustomed to putting others before themselves to a point where it is terribly unhealthy. To mock that? I don't know who the author is, but he/she has a lot of learning to do.
People need to be able to say no when they can't do something. The codependent people-pleaser who is saying yes to everyone all the time is also not in a good place.
I'm not sure about the above example- why couldn't the husband break the news to his wife? So strange.
So happy I don't read these magazines.

amother

Jetblack

Sun, May 24 2020, 1:19 pm

The husband couldn't break the news to the wife BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT HER TO BE ALONE WHEN SHE GOT IT!

(However, he failed on the neighbor issue and should have accepted her "no".)

Simple1

Sun, May 24 2020, 1:45 pm

At first I agreed with her that these days there is too much encouraging people to maintain boundaries at the expense of being there for each other.

But that example was really too much. I don't think I would've gotten up the courage to break such news to someone. Not blaming either party because under the tragic circumstances, it's hard to think straight.