 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Coronavirus Health Questions
|
amother
Honeydew
|
 Mon, May 25 2020, 8:32 pm
What changed?
People’s patience with the info that changes every day. There is no clear cut guidelines, at least not in the usa
Big country, too many leaders all arguing against each other instead of working with each other.
Doesn’t seem like any of them know any better than The simple little old citizen Or really care about anyone else.
Its all about the optics.
| |
|
| Back to top |
 0
 11
|
|
amother
Natural
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:33 pm
| itsmeima wrote: | | Okay, we've narrowed it down to Lakewood. Where in Lakewood? |
Lakewood in general has not transported a patient to the hospital for corona in about 3-4 weeks
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
6
|
|
amother
OP
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:34 pm
| amother [ Wine ] wrote: | I’ve heard this directly from hatzalah members in lakewood. They went from 100 calls, 10s of transports to none.
Bikur cholim also - not lending out oxygen machines, supplying food mainlt to old cases. |
This may be true in one or several locations. But even if it was true in most/all locations ( which we don't have info on), a second wave could c"v start as easily as the first - exactly the same way the first wave happened. Nothing has changed since the first wave. No vaccine, no treatment, no herd immunity. The fact that new infections are less may theoretically slightly minimize the risk AT THIS GIVEN MOMENT, but does not minimize the risk of future outbreaks c"v. So again, what changed???
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
6
|
thunderstorm
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:34 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | You've all given wonderful arguments to support the economic or humanitarian side of reopening, but no one has addressed the Jewish halachic/hashkafic side. If such extreme measures were put into place by our Rabbinic leaders for the sake of sakanas nefashos, now that the curve is flattened or the economy needs to be reopened, or "my kids won't stay sane staying inside" or even "the number of new cases have gone down so the risk is theoretically less" are irrelevant to the issue of sakanas nefashos. While our government leaders have our society's interests at large in mind, by reopening they are willing to accept a certain amount of deaths c"v (for a "greater" cause - that I am not arguing with). But halacha/hashkafa values the life of even one person, and so long as the risk to individuals is basically the same, I don't understand the decision to reopen on a community level. |
I think the rabbanim are going along with the CDC and government guidelines and if minyanim are allowed with a minimal amount of people and the SD guidelines are in place the Rabbanim are in agreement with it. Many governments began reopening their states slowly. So we are all following that protocol. As far as the people giving up SD altogether, I can’t speak for them. But yesterday I went to a frum owned store and I was pleasantly surprised to feel safer there than I had in Target or Lowe’s. The Jewish store only allowed a few people in the store at once, with masks and they kept the door locked and guarded. When one customer left another was allowed indoors . If everyone followed this type of protocol there really should be no issue. What upset me to see was that the store was inside an indoor mall and the mall was jam packed with people and what appeared to be at least 100 kids . Lots of people were not wearing masks and living life as if nothing is going on. I think there is a middle way. Both extremes are not good. But we can and should be able to begin living life but with some precautions in place. I do not agree with the people that threw it all out the window. I think some responsible measures need to be taken.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
18
|
Hillery
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:34 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Each one of your arguments is anecdotal/speculative. Holds no water in this conversation without supporting data. |
Define data. When hatzola went from getting calls "dropping like flies" was the way it was described to me, to zero calls for weeks, that is enough for me.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
12
|
|
amother
Wine
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:38 pm
| itsmeima wrote: | | Okay, we've narrowed it down to Lakewood. Where in Lakewood? |
Lakewood counts are easy. They are published. There is no questions the rate of infectionhave gone down.
It’s much easier to track then ny.
There are fewer cases daily and fewer deaths.
Hatzalah of Lakewood is all of Lakewood, Toms River and Jackson.
These numbers are all residents regardless of religion.
Isn’t the goal to see rates decreas like this day after day?
Today in Lakewood there were 7 new cases in the township.
Monday 5/25: Lakewood total 2263/ 142 deaths Toms River 1444/117 Brick 1039/104, Jackson 787/52
SUnday 5/24: Lakewood total 2256/142 deaths
Wendsday 5/20: Lakewood Cases 2194/ deaths 136, Toms River, 1392/112, Brick 1020/98, Jackson 780/47
Monday 5/18: Lakewood:total 2151/128 deaths. Toms River 1357/110, Brick 992/97, Jackson 771/44
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
thunderstorm
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:38 pm
| itsmeima wrote: | | Hatzola told you that? |
My brother is a Hatzolah member and he works in a N.Y. hospital and I asked him about it since last week someone here mentioned that Hatzolah didn’t have any Covid related calls in the last few weeks, so I asked him if it was true and he said there were very few.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
8
|
|
amother
OP
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:43 pm
The numbers went down bH which is amazing, but if there is no vaccine, cure or herd immunity, what's to prevent future deaths CV if we reopen? Of course SD will help, but it will not minimize the risk nearly as much as lockdown.
Again, asking from the halachic/hashkafic perspective, not economic/societal/humanitarian/flattening the curve perspective.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
5
|
itsmeima
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:45 pm
| thunderstorm wrote: | | My brother is a Hatzolah member and he works in a N.Y. hospital and I asked him about it since last week someone here mentioned that Hatzolah didn’t have any Covid related calls in the last few weeks, so I asked him if it was true and he said there were very few. |
There very few cases where?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
thunderstorm
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:46 pm
| itsmeima wrote: | | There very few cases where? | 5 Towns and Brooklyn areas
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
3
|
|
amother
Brunette
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:54 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | Just a few weeks ago,
What changed?!?! |
The dates.
It was back in March then, we are nearing June now.
People overcome hardships fairly quickly. They complied while it lasted and loosened when the number of cases declined.
Simple human nature.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
10
|
|
amother
Mauve
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:55 pm
|
Hatzala In Monsey said the same. Hashem should help it should remain this way.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
14
|
|
amother
Brunette
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 8:57 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | You've all given wonderful arguments to support the economic or humanitarian side of reopening, but no one has addressed the Jewish halachic/hashkafic side. If such extreme measures were put into place by our Rabbinic leaders for the sake of sakanas nefashos, now that the curve is flattened or the economy needs to be reopened, or "my kids won't stay sane staying inside" or even "the number of new cases have gone down so the risk is theoretically less" are irrelevant to the issue of sakanas nefashos. While our government leaders have our society's interests at large in mind, by reopening they are willing to accept a certain amount of deaths c"v (for a "greater" cause - that I am not arguing with). But halacha/hashkafa values the life of even one person, and so long as the risk to individuals is basically the same, I don't understand the decision to reopen on a community level. |
My very orthodox rabbi advised to comply then, and resume minyan and cheder now.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
13
|
|
amother
Silver
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 9:02 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | The numbers went down bH which is amazing, but if there is no vaccine, cure or herd immunity, what's to prevent future deaths CV if we reopen? Of course SD will help, but it will not minimize the risk nearly as much as lockdown.
Again, asking from the halachic/hashkafic perspective, not economic/societal/humanitarian/flattening the curve perspective. |
You're asking the question, but you don't want to listen to the answer. Numerous women told you on this site that the curve is flattened, the deaths aren't as high as people expected, and hatzalah reports little to no calls.
My husband is on hatzalah. No calls since Pesach regarding Covid.
From a halachic standpoint, it was harder to shut the shuls and the schools and the learning Torah than it is to reopen. So what's the question?
And if you're really so concerned about halacha, what are you doing asking a bunch of women for? As your local rabbi.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
21
|
ExtraCredit
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 9:05 pm
| Hillery wrote: | | Define data. When hatzola went from getting calls "dropping like flies" was the way it was described to me, to zero calls for weeks, that is enough for me. |
I’m so happy to hear that this is the situation in London too.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
6
|
|
amother
Green
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 9:06 pm
The risk to individuals is not the same as it was. The risk is lower therefore the protocols changed.
If an individual person has a higher risk he will be told by his rav that sakanas nefashos for him is still high. But for the vast majority at this point the risk is low.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
14
|
mommy3b2c
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 9:17 pm
| itsmeima wrote: | | Hatzola told you that? |
Hatzalah told ME that.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
12
|
|
amother
Tangerine
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 9:18 pm
| amother [ Green ] wrote: | The risk to individuals is not the same as it was. The risk is lower therefore the protocols changed.
If an individual person has a higher risk he will be told by his rav that sakanas nefashos for him is still high. But for the vast majority at this point the risk is low. |
But is the risk really that much lower that people have gone from ripping people apart for daring to go out to basically abandoning any efforts on this front?
And what about the people who are vulnerable? Will they never be able to leave their houses again? Will I never be able to go to my parents' house again because they are over 65?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
|
amother
Royalblue
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 9:18 pm
|
Hatzala CH Brooklyn says no new cases since beginning of May.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
6
|
southernbubby
|
Mon, May 25 2020, 9:26 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | The numbers went down bH which is amazing, but if there is no vaccine, cure or herd immunity, what's to prevent future deaths CV if we reopen? Of course SD will help, but it will not minimize the risk nearly as much as lockdown.
Again, asking from the halachic/hashkafic perspective, not economic/societal/humanitarian/flattening the curve perspective. |
Some pandemics burn out so hopefully this one will too.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
11
|
| Related Topics |
Replies |
Last Post |
|
|
Ketamine changed my life for the better AMA
|
46 |
Mon, Apr 22 2024, 8:13 am  |
|
|
Can someone check the R’ Blumenkrantz book for me?
|
1 |
Sun, Apr 21 2024, 1:11 pm |
|
|
Someone please advise
|
4 |
Sun, Apr 21 2024, 3:28 am |
|
|
ISO of someone who knows how to cut curly hair
|
4 |
Sun, Apr 14 2024, 6:51 pm |
|
|
Can someone please help me find...?
|
1 |
Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:38 pm |
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
