PSA vegan is still treif

Reality

Tue, May 26 2020, 1:34 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Some people do. I have a friend, very frum guy, who sometimes needs to go to non Kosher restaurants for meetings, it affects his parnassah if he doesn't. There aren't any kosher restaurants where he lives. His rav gave him a list of guidelines, I can't remember them all but he has to stick to salads and make sure there are no onions. Please, before you all jump down my throat yelling that this isn't allowed, this was a specific psak that he received.

Amother because I've told this to a lot of people.

Why post a personal psak? It's an exception to the rule. Not everyone will read an entire post carefully and they may come away with the idea it's ok to order a salad at a non-kosher restaurant.

Of course, if I saw a frum Jew in a non-kosher restaurant I would hope I would be DLZ.

malki2

Tue, May 26 2020, 1:36 pm

Reality wrote:

Aside from that, in this day and age, what’s the big deal telling your clients that you are an Orthodox Jew and can only order a drink? Won’t they think it’s weird anyways if they are all feasting on steak and all you are eating is a salad? Personally I never faced any repercussions by being open and direct.

singleagain

Tue, May 26 2020, 1:37 pm

Reality wrote:

Not the one quoted. But the reason to post a personal psak, with a clear disclaimer, so that people know there is possibility of a psak in a similar situation. Not they can go to their Rabbi and explain things better. And so that ppl will remember to be dlkz. If you see something, think... Maybe they have a psak

SixOfWands

Tue, May 26 2020, 2:35 pm

Reality wrote:

Because a poster here stated that without exception, anyone who would eat in such circumstances isn't frum.

amother

Papaya

Tue, May 26 2020, 2:41 pm

malki2 wrote:

He probably say's I'm an Orthodox Jew and all I can eat here is a salad - as that is what his Rav told him he could do.

Raisin

Tue, May 26 2020, 2:46 pm

tichellady wrote:

There are rabbis who say you can eat in such a place if you follow specific instructions about what you can eat. And of course if someone needs to eat ( a diabetic, pregnant woman etc) for health reasons it’s better to eat at a vegan place then McDonald’s. There are Usually items at a vegan restaurant that are kosher, just not hekshered, according to some Halakhic opinions (avocado toast , a banana cashew shake etc)

Orthodox Rabbis? I assume those guidelines are double wrapped fish, salads without onions or leafy veggies, cut up fruit...

It's pretty complex. Many people are just not knowledgeable enough.

Also not sure why a person HAS to eat at a business meeting.

And if someone has to eat urgently for health reasons - I don't know about where you live but vegan restaurants are pretty thin on the ground in most places. There are about 10 restaurants near my house. (probably more) None are exclusively vegan. (almost all vegans afaik will eat vegan food in any restaurant) Most people in a health emergency would just head for the nearest restaurant (or supermarket) and ask for the most acceptable option.

Business meetings aside (there are many threads on this topic if you care to look) I am curious which Orthodox rabbi allows eating for fun at vegan restaurants. And what the guidelines are. I am not being mean - I am just genuinely surprised to hear this.

Last edited by Raisin on Tue, May 26 2020, 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Papaya

Tue, May 26 2020, 2:46 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Because a poster here stated that without exception, anyone who would eat in such circumstances isn't frum.

unless there is a consensus on what it means to be "frum" its meaningless to point at someone and say "they aren't frum".

amother

Purple

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:07 pm

Considering that being frum by all definitions includes shabbos kashrus and TH, and eating vegan food falls in the category of kashrus, therefore if someone eats something on purpose that they know is not kosher, and don’t have exceptional circumstances or a psak from a rav, that does in fact make them not frum.

So yes calling someone not frum for eating not kosher works.

If you want to argue about whether the food in question is kosher or treif that is what this thread is about.

malki2

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:12 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

He probably say's I'm an Orthodox Jew and all I can eat here is a salad - as that is what his Rav told him he could do.

Right. So why can’t he just have a soda and stay away from anything questionable? I’m not judging, I’m just trying to understand. Judaism is about asking questions and understanding. All of a sudden when a Rav issues a lenient psak, it’s time for blind faith?

SixOfWands

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:22 pm

malki2 wrote:

Why do you need to drink? Once you walk into that restaurant, its marais ayin. Even if your rabbi says its fine, why are we suddenly relying upon your rabbi? Why the blind faith that they don't add something questionable to the cola?

CYLOR. Rely upon him. Period.

malki2

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:23 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Straw man argument. Please just answer the question. Otherwise you can say that you don’t know.

SixOfWands

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:28 pm

malki2 wrote:

Straw man argument. Please just answer the question. Otherwise you can say that you don’t know.

Its not a straw man argument. You wanted to know why he can't eschew from food. The answer, clearly, is because he doesn't need to, per his rabbi. If you want to be extra machmir, then there's no need to eat or drink anything. But the line isn't where your feeling says it should be, its where someone with halachic knowledge says it should be.

BTW, in that situation, I would absolutely ask my rabbi about eating a salad. Deals are made over dinner. Clients don't feel comfortable eating while you sit with a glass of water.

malki2

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:32 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

That wasn’t my question. Anyway, I don’t see that type of client being comfortable if you munch on undressed salad while they eat filet minion. But whatever.

amother

Papaya

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:37 pm

malki2 wrote:

His Rav told him he could have a salad. Why should he not eat, when the Rav gave him parameters on what he could eat. He is in a restaurant after all.

What part don't you understand?

malki2

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:42 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

His Rav told him he could have a salad. Why should he not eat, when the Rav gave him parameters on what he could eat. He is in a restaurant after all.

What part don't you understand?

I’ll explain.

I’ll let you all in on a little secret: Most of the time a Rav will direct a person based on the way that they asked their question. So basically here the guy told his Rav that he needs to eat something in the restaurant with the clients and is it ok if he eats a salad, and the Rav said ok. I don’t think that the Rav directed him to eat the salad. So what I was saying is, eating a salad is still questionable, even with the heter of a Rav. So why does the guy need to compromise altogether, when it would work just fine if he sat and drank a coke?

amother

Sapphire

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:46 pm

Reality wrote:

Because someone asked how does anyone eat anything at a non kosher restaurant. It can happen in certain circumstances.

SixOfWands

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:47 pm

malki2 wrote:

So, now you know what the question asked was, and you know that the rabbi bent himself into a pretzel because .... because rabbis always let you do whatever you want?

No reason not to believe the same about your soda, then. Why do you need to compromise by sitting in a treif restaurant? If you're not going to eat, talk to them another time.