Why WOULDN'T antibodies provide some protection?!

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amother

Wed, May 27 2020, 2:59 pm

So I know that this is a "novel" virus, and we know nothing definite about it, but isn't it still a virus first and foremost?

Don't all antibodies work the same way? If you have antibodies, you have some protection for every other virus. Why would it be different for Covid-19?

I don't get why everyone says that we don't know anything about it.

thunderstorm

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:01 pm

I think the issue is that the antibodies test is not accurate and is giving false positives and false negatives

amother

Jetblack

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:03 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

I think the issue is that the antibodies test is not accurate and is giving false positives and false negatives

How would they know that?

amother

Firebrick

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:03 pm

Also because no one seems able to determine yet for how long and under what circumstances the antibodies protect and provide some if any immunity.

thunderstorm

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:09 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

How would they know that?

It was reported today that the CDC said the antibodies are wrong half of the time.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w.....3famp

amother

Green

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:09 pm

By now the convalescent plasma studies are showing good results with antibodies for current patients.

The general issues are:

1 - antibody tests are not reliable on an individual level
2 - no one is sure how long these particular antibodies last, especially on an individual basis
3 - for some viruses, antibodies don't improve outcomes the second time around but actually worsen it. Look up dengue fever. I think there is enough evidence by now that we don't need to worry about this for Covid-19, though.

Ora in town

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:13 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No. Antibodies are specialised...
It's an issue of their shape fitting the shape of the relevant parts of the virus, so they can detect it and remove it...
That's why having had the measles will not protect you from poliomyelitis or menengitis. They are different viruses with different shapes and need different antibodies...

So we have to vaccinate or acquire immunity against each virus separately...

virologists think that once you had Covid, you are immune, at least for some time...

However, there are other human coronaviruses that cause just a common cold... it could be that people who had those are less vulnerable to Covid... this might be the reason why so many people stay symptomless...

Ora in town

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:20 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

How would they know that?

Either they test according to different methods.
Or they repeat tests.

There is always a certain percentage of false positives and false negatives in every test.
I heard the PCR-Covid-Test hat 30% false negatives...

The antibody tests might have only 10% false positives (90% specificity).
But if in the population, 10% or less has had Covid, 10% false positives would translate to only 50% of positives being real covid cases.

Imagine 100 persons.
10 had covid. So they test positive.
of the 90 remaining persons, 10% test false postive, because the specificity is 90%.
That's 9 false positives.
So you have 19 positive test results, 10 of which are right, and 9 are wrong... roughly 50% miss...

Last edited by Ora in town on Wed, May 27 2020, 3:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Jetblack

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:20 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

It was reported today that the CDC said the antibodies are wrong half of the time.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w.....3famp

I still don't understand how they could know. They retested so many people and the results were different?

CiCi

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:22 pm

Covid-19 is almost certain to have been lab created and therefore unpredictable at this point. It has mutated a few times within the few months it has been in existence which is not usual for a natural virus. We know little of how effective the anti-bodies are.

And that is precisely why a vaccine cannot and should not, be given at this point and should never be mandated.

That being said, since the virus will be with us from now on, people should be able to lead normal lives. Whoever chooses to stay quarantined can do so as well.

amother

Wine

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Antibody tests for Covid-19 wrong half the time, CDC says
Antibody tests used to determine if people have been infected in the past with Covid-19 might be wrong up to half the time, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in new guidance posted on its website.

Antibody tests, often called serologic tests, look for evidence of an immune response to infection. "Antibodies in some persons can be detected within the first week of illness onset," the CDC says.

They are not accurate enough to use to make important policy decisions, the CDC said. "Serologic test results should not be used to make decisions about grouping persons residing in or being admitted to congregate settings, such as schools, dormitories, or correctional facilities," the CDC says.

Health officials or health care providers who are using antibody tests need to use the most accurate test they can find and might need to test people twice, the CDC said in the new guidance. "In most of the country, including areas that have been heavily impacted, the prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 antibody is expected to be low, ranging from less than 5% to 25%, so that testing at this point might result in relatively more false positive results and fewer false-negative results," the CDC said.

A false positive will lead someone to believe they have been infected when in fact they have not been. There's little evidence now about whether having been infected gives people immunity to later infection, but doctors worry that people will behave as if they are immune if they get a positive antibody test. [CNN]

amother

Wine

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:26 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

How would they know that?

Because they tested people on two different days and got two different results

Ora in town

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:26 pm

CiCi wrote:

Cov-Sars2 in view of its RNA-Struture is almost certain not to have been created artificially, but resulting from spontaneous mutations.

Please stop spreading conspiracy theories.

LovesHashem

Wed, May 27 2020, 3:29 pm

Just because you have anti bodies doesn't mean you can't get it and it can't harm you.

CiCi

Wed, May 27 2020, 4:22 pm

Ora in town wrote:

Cov-Sars2 in view of its RNA-Struture is almost certain not to have been created artificially, but resulting from spontaneous mutations.

Please stop spreading conspiracy theories.

You are almost certain it's natural. I'm almost certain it was lab created. Just because Google SUPPRESSES information regarding possible lab creation of the virus doesn't mean I have to buy their version. I have heard scientists say it was lab created and their version makes sense to me. You can choose the "official" version of what Google peddles.

amother

Mauve

Wed, May 27 2020, 4:44 pm

Neutralizing vs non neutralizing antibodies...

amother

Powderblue

Wed, May 27 2020, 5:13 pm

People get a cold and recover and later get a cold again

People get the flu and recover and later get the flu again

People get stomach viruses, recover and get viruses again

there is no vaccine for the common cold or stomach virus

there is a new flu vaccine each year because there is a new strain of the flu each year

before covid-19, 30% of the common colds and flu were caused by coronavirus
(not covid-19 but the original coronavirus from beforehand)
and people were not immune, even if they had recovered.

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Jun 01 2020, 1:28 pm

Ora you misunderstood her. Everyone knows antibodies are specialized and that having the measles doesn't protect you from meningitis etc. It's rather condescending for you to think any adult would not know that.

Read what she wrote again. Yes, she could have worded it in a better way for clarity, but come on.

She said: "Don't all antibodies work the same way? If you have antibodies, you have some protection for every other virus."

She obviously meant that FOR EVERY OTHER VIRUS, if you have antibodies you have some protection. So why wouldn't that be the case for Coronavirus too - that if you have antibodies for it, you will have some protection from it.

Ora in town wrote:

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 01 2020, 1:30 pm

I've heard of people giving plasma, coming back in three weeks to donate again, and their bloodwork doesn't show antibodies. I don't know if it's because they're gone or something was wrong. But we do all have to be careful.

OBnursemom

Mon, Jun 01 2020, 1:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The short answer is no, there are different kinds of antibodies. The long answer is spoken about here https://www.livescience.com/co......html

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