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Manipulative child
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cbsp




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 3:29 pm
lilies wrote:
You know how when others claim there isn't ever a time for children to cut their relationship with a parent? Or when people claim therapy is a whole bunch of baloney?
And all that comes to mind is Banging head?

That's how mothers of manipulative children feel when others say there is no such thing as a manipulative child.

Thank H' every day for the agony you have been spared.


This.

And no, it's not always attention seeking behavior. Why classify what you haven't actually witnessed?
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lilies




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 3:35 pm
cbsp wrote:
This.

And no, it's not always attention seeking behavior. Why classify what you haven't actually witnessed?



Where have I classified this as attention seeking behavior? Am confused.

ETA, I went back to reread the previous page and saw that comment. Sometimes posts just disappear and reappear magically. LOL
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 3:40 pm
lilies wrote:
You know how when others claim there isn't ever a time for children to cut their relationship with a parent? Or when people claim therapy is a whole bunch of baloney?
And all that comes to mind is Banging head?

That's how mothers of manipulative children feel when others say there is no such thing as a manipulative child.

Thank H' every day for the agony you have been spared.

Who said I have? Banging head
Just don't call a kid manipulative. It's not a description I would use for a child. There are many words to use and ways to describe children who know how to get what they want, who are smart beyond their years, and make parenting very very challenging.

It's the mindset (that typically comes along with that particular word) that I'm opposed to.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 3:42 pm
pause wrote:
Who said I have? Banging head
Just don't call a kid manipulative. It's not a description I would use for a child. There are many words to use and ways to describe children who know how to get what they want, who are smart beyond their years, and make parenting very very challenging.

It's the mindset (that typically comes along with that particular word) that I'm opposed to.


Should I help you with that word?
I feel very kind today.
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 3:48 pm
crust wrote:
Should I help you with that word?
I feel very kind today.

You can try. It's a free country.
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lilies




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 3:51 pm
pause wrote:
Who said I have? Banging head
Just don't call a kid manipulative. It's not a description I would use for a child. There are many words to use and ways to describe children who know how to get what they want, who are smart beyond their years, and make parenting very very challenging.

It's the mindset (that typically comes along with that particular word) that I'm opposed to.


Nobody is prancing about calling their kid names.
It's a sad conclusion many parents have to accept in order to help their child grow into a healthy adult.
Some of their behavior is manipulative. Does that define the child? No.

Would you tell a mother not to say her child lies? Rather say the child knows how to get what they want? Would you tell a mother not to say her child is bullying others, rather say her child is using repetitive force to control his environment?

Some kids are manipulative.
Some kids lie.
Some kids bully.
Some kids steal.
Some kids are aggressive.

These same kids can be sweet, kind, gentle, caring, and honest too.
None of these actions define the child but they are necessary terms to use when a mother is asking for help and needs to describe the issue.

I just derailed this thread.
OP I'm so sorry!
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 4:01 pm
lilies wrote:
Nobody is prancing about calling their kid names.
It's a sad conclusion many parents have to accept in order to help their child grow into a healthy adult.
Some of their behavior is manipulative. Does that define the child? No.

Would you tell a mother not to say her child lies? Rather say the child knows how to get what they want? Would you tell a mother not to say her child is bullying others, rather say her child is using repetitive force to control his environment?

Some kids are manipulative.
Some kids lie.
Some kids bully.
Some kids steal.
Some kids are aggressive.

These same kids can be sweet, kind, gentle, caring, and honest too.
None of these actions define the child but they are necessary terms to use when a mother is asking for help and needs to describe the issue.

I just derailed this thread.
OP I'm so sorry!

To further derail this thread, calling a kid manipulative even to yourself has repercussions. Labelling is disabling, remember that cliche? It's true not only when you tell it to the kid, but when, in your head, you put this kid into a box.

This is not to say a parent should be in denial about their child's nature and often negative tendencies, but there's a way to go about it. Anyone who labels a child as a "manipulative child" (whether an expert or the parent) will probably not be able to help the child grow into a healthy adult. They are limiting the child, and themselves - to help the child, reach his/her potential.

There are many resources out there about this concept.
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lilies




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 4:16 pm
pause wrote:
To further derail this thread, calling a kid manipulative even to yourself has repercussions. Labelling is disabling, remember that cliche? It's true not only when you tell it to the kid, but when, in your head, you put this kid into a box.

This is not to say a parent should be in denial about their child's nature and often negative tendencies, but there's a way to go about it. Anyone who labels a child as a "manipulative child" (whether an expert or the parent) will probably not be able to help the child grow into a healthy adult. They are limiting the child, and themselves - to help the child, reach his/her potential.

There are many resources out there about this concept.


Well said. That's why for a child with manipulative tendencies, to not call it as it is will equal to burying your head in the sand.

The only way to help the child grow into a healthy adult is to be aware of this tendency and not label the child.

I agree that by labeling a child in the sense that the label will define the child is to limit yourself as a mother and the child's potential.
In this case, I feel OP was describing the issue, not labeling.

It takes a strong, smart, and emotionally-healthy mother to be able to keep the awareness without allowing that to cloud her relationship with her child.
OP, hats off to you!
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 4:20 pm
lilies wrote:
Well said. That's why for a child with manipulative tendencies, to not call it as it is will equal to burying your head in the sand.

The only way to help the child grow into a healthy adult is to be aware of this tendency and not label the child.

I agree that by labeling a child in the sense that the label will define the child is to limit yourself as a mother and the child's potential.
In this case, I feel OP was describing the issue, not labeling.

It takes a strong, smart, and emotionally-healthy mother to be able to keep the awareness without allowing that to cloud her relationship with her child.
OP, hats off to you!


I agree.

But the expert was describing the child. And that's what my first post on this thread was in response to.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 4:26 pm
Manipulative is not just label. It’s a judgment. Kids who seem to manipulate are doing it for a reason. Find that reason, and react to that.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 4:26 pm
Lilies, the only issue I have is that whenever I hear a person calling a child manipulative, the parent is the one that's manipulative or controlling.
A professional calling it that way is a whole new level.


I have seen children that are manipulative or children that are real bullies all the the way through their childhood years.
But somehow, their parents seem to think the kid is ok. Or, they think that they have a perfect grip on that child.
They do not go to proffesionals.
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lilies




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 4:38 pm
pause wrote:
I agree.

But the expert was describing the child. And that's what my first post on this thread was in response to.


Yes.

I do agree that a professional should not be labeling the child, but it depends on context.
There are times when a professional does not see the manipulation and is being manipulated themselves.
If a professional has been working with a kid and mentions that the child sometimes manipulates, it would actually be expected, else they're being fooled.
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lilies




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:01 pm
OP, I just went back to reread your first post, and if they're not sure if this is actually ADHD, maybe consider reading some of the recommended books and see what happens.
Changing the way of relating to your kid might bring about some changes in behavior and you might get a clearer picture of what comes next.

Also, and I should have mentioned this right away - in children the effects of traumatic stress mimic ADHD. If they're not sure about ADHD strongly consider the possibility of trauma.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:01 pm
lilies wrote:
This does not a healthy attachment style make.
Just pointing this out.
No offense meant.

No it doesnt but the point is: a present attentive mother can also have a manipulative child.



True it's better not to label a child but in this case it's good to be honest about this specific character trait and say it how it is. It's not the same as defining the child as a thief or liar. I don't think I'm explaining this well but I don't see it as a definitive label because it's a single character trait that can be channeled positively unlike a label that is supposed to define the sum total of that person. If a parent or teacher is unaware of the manipulative skills of a child, that for sure doesn't help the child and will lead to bigger and greater problems.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:04 pm
crust wrote:
Lilies, the only issue I have is that whenever I hear a person calling a child manipulative, the parent is the one that's manipulative or controlling.
A professional calling it that way is a whole new level.

I disagree. I think that's a major misplaced generalization.
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cbsp




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:06 pm
amother [ Salmon ] wrote:
Manipulative is not just label. It’s a judgment. Kids who seem to manipulate are doing it for a reason. Find that reason, and react to that.


No it is not a judgement, any more than "attention seeking" is a judgement.

The word is literally on the ADOS questionnaire where it asks about all sorts of behaviors.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:07 pm
pause wrote:
To further derail this thread, calling a kid manipulative even to yourself has repercussions. Labelling is disabling, remember that cliche? It's true not only when you tell it to the kid, but when, in your head, you put this kid into a box.

This is not to say a parent should be in denial about their child's nature and often negative tendencies, but there's a way to go about it. Anyone who labels a child as a "manipulative child" (whether an expert or the parent) will probably not be able to help the child grow into a healthy adult. They are limiting the child, and themselves - to help the child, reach his/her potential.

There are many resources out there about this concept.

This is not true for me and I'm sure for others like me.
It's one of the things that sounds good when it's said but practically doesn't hold much water when it comes to this specific example.
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:08 pm
What behappy2 said
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:10 pm
cbsp wrote:
No it is not a judgement, any more than "attention seeking" is a judgement.

The word is literally on the ADOS questionnaire where it asks about all sorts of behaviors.
I think attention seeking is a judgment too. It’s ascribing an assumed motive to a behavior.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Jun 02 2020, 5:12 pm
lilies wrote:
OP, I just went back to reread your first post, and if they're not sure if this is actually ADHD, maybe consider reading some of the recommended books and see what happens.
Changing the way of relating to your kid might bring about some changes in behavior and you might get a clearer picture of what comes next.

Also, and I should have mentioned this right away - in children the effects of traumatic stress mimic ADHD. If they're not sure about ADHD strongly consider the possibility of trauma.

Maybe. It did start around when a traumatic event occurred in our area. Not something specific to us, but something that no child could ignore. We did art therapy for a different effect of that trauma and it helped, but I never thought manipulative behavior might be a result of it.

We'll see if it's ADHD first, I guess.
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