Shiluach haken | Imamother

shmosmom

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:18 am

Hi everyone!
I'm wondering if anyone has any more insight about Shiluach haken- the mitzvah of sending away the parent bird and taking away her eggs.
My aunt recently had a bird build a nest on her porch and lay an egg, and was told she should do it.
I couldn't understand it. My understanding of Hashem is that he's Compassionate with a CAPS LOCK C; how can this be one of our commandments? I tried looking it up somewhat, saw it an explanation saying the parent bird's crying at this cruelty reminds God of Israel's suffering at the hands of its enemies, and leads God to save Israel.
I don't think God needs "reminders".
Any better explanations?
(Just in advance, I don't watch videos or listen to podcasts, I don't mind if you link a written article though.)
Thanks All!

Einikel

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:20 am

The real mitzvah is that when someone is on a journey and wants to eat eggs he should send away the mother first not to pain her. Not that someone should go out of their way to chase mother birds away. I can ask my husband for sources later.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:24 am

Ask Lymnok. She has experience with this, and her DH knows a lot about it as well. She can get you sources.

I never understood it much myself. I do know that it has to be eggs from a kosher bird.

zaq

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:27 am

Based on my own rational reasoning: it’s a mitzvah if you want to use the eggs. Treat the mom compassionately. It’s NOT a mitzvah to gratuitously disturb the mother bird just so you can say you observed the mitzvah. That makes almost as much sense as killing someone so you can do the mitzvah of burying him.

pizzapie

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:27 am

The mitzvah is to send away the mother bird before taking the egg. In order to show mercy, like Hashem, and not cause the mother bird pain. It is still a mitzva to do it even if one does not intend to eat the egg (ie, pick up the egg to be koneh it).

sequoia

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:28 am

zaq wrote:

That makes almost as much sense as killing someone so you can do the mitzvah of burying him.

Although that would make an interesting defense...

pizzapie

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:30 am

Chabad.org has some information on this mitzvah. It seems that according to many (most?) opinions the mitzva of shiluach hakan is a chok, and we do it even though we dont understand it.

Ora in town

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:34 am

I think it's not about taking eggs, but young birds...
Because otherwise you would have to do it with chicken too, when they lay eggs...
If someone wants to take away the young birds in the nest, he should send away the bird first.

but as Einikel said, the mitzwa is not to go to random bird nest and chase the mother bird away...

I think what OP's aunt is trying to do is a gross misconception...

Last edited by Ora in town on Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Amber

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:36 am

Harav asked me to post that according to Chazan Ish Rabbeinu Bachaya and Chatam Sofer a person should only do shiluach Haken if he needs the eggs. Otherwise it’s not a mitzvah. Harav Ovadya adds in the Sefer Yalkut Yosef that a person doing this without needing the eggs might be actually transgressing the negative commandment of tzaar baalei Chaim.

(This was on my shul chat just two weeks ago)

ETA anon because who knows who else from shul chat is on here obvi

chanatron1000

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:39 am

zaq wrote:

That makes almost as much sense as killing someone so you can do the mitzvah of burying him.

It would be more comparable to schechting an animal when you don't intend to use it.

Last edited by chanatron1000 on Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total

Ora in town

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 11:40 am

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

It's not about eggs, it's about chicks...

imasoftov

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 12:08 pm

Ora in town wrote:

I think it's not about taking eggs, but young birds...
Because otherwise you would have to do it with chicken too, when they lay eggs...

The Torah says (Devorim 22:6) אֶפְרחִים אוֹ בֵיצִים - fledglings or eggs.

The reason this mitzvah does not apply to domestic chickens is that the same pasuk says "if you chance upon a bird's nest". If one found the nest of a feral chicken it would apply.

This is unrelated to the question of whether the mitzvah is obligatory whenever one finds a nest or only applies when one wants the eggs or young birds.

Last edited by imasoftov on Tue, Jun 02 2020, 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

asmileaday

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 12:16 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

Interesting, this is the 1st time I'm hearing this perspective.
I always hear what a great mitzva it is to do even if we don't understand the reasoning. People attach all kinds of segulos to it.
I know people that had nests and had many people come do the mitzva multiple times. It was always applauded and a great sensation.
According to the post quoted it seems like people aren't really doing that great of a deed after all, so why is it so celebrated?

Ora in town

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 1:21 pm

asmileaday wrote:

Ever heard of chassid shoteh?
Seems to be pretty widespread nowadays...

keym

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 2:00 pm

asmileaday wrote:

The pasuk tells us that one who fulfills the mitzva will live long.
Similar to kibud av veim.
So people create shiluach haken as a segula for long life.

iyar

Tue, Jun 02 2020, 2:17 pm

Ora in town wrote:

Ever heard of chassid shoteh?
Seems to be pretty widespread nowadays...

Wait. Before we call anyone chassid shoteh, let's admit that the halachos of Shiluach haken are detailed and complicated. How to understand the meaning and intention behind this mitzvah is also not clear and simple. Imamother might not be the right place to get a full, or even superficial, lecture on the topic.