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amother
OP
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 Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:14 pm
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Looking for books and resources on the Torah view on science. Specifically the big bang theory and quantum physics. Can the big bang and creation both be true at the same time etc..
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avrahamama
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:15 pm
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Have you read any Gerald Schroeder? I haven't as it doesn't interest me. But he's your guy if that's what you're looking for.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:20 pm
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Thankks so much! Going to order one of his books
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rydys
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:35 pm
Try “Thinking About Creation” by Andrew Goldfinger. He discusses the seeming paradox between Torah and science in a very strait forward way. He does discuss quantum theory in relation to Torah concepts as well.
You can get this on amazon as well.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:42 pm
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Will look into all. Thank you all!
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iyar
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:00 pm
Another vote for Andrew Goldfinger’s book, “Thinking About Creation”. Very interesting, very well written, not overly technical. Even if you’re not a physicist (like me) you’ll understand and enjoy every page.
ETA
* Was I unclear? I meant I’m Not a physicist! Either way, read the book, it’s great!
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malki2
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:28 pm
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The “discovery” of the Big Bang was actually a a “proof” of Creation, as it proved that the Universe came into being at a specific point in time, as opposed to the previously held belief that everything was always “there”. Granted that there is a discrepancy regarding age of the universe, but there are people who deal with that as well. Just don’t think that being a scientist means that you are right about every theory that you come up with. The Lubavitcher Rebbe ZTL, who was a brilliant man with an advanced scientific education from University of Berlin and the Sorbonne, was very strong about not compromising the Torah one iota to Science. There’s a collection of his articles in a book called Mind Over Matter.
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Ora in town
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:50 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Looking for books and resources on the Torah view on science. Specifically the big bang theory and quantum physics. Can the big bang and creation both be true at the same time etc.. |
RAmbam: there might be apparent contradictions between science and torah, we can accept both as true and have to recognise that we are not great enough to resolve the contradiction...
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imorethanamother
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:58 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Looking for books and resources on the Torah view on science. Specifically the big bang theory and quantum physics. Can the big bang and creation both be true at the same time etc.. |
So what's the question on quantum physics as it relates to Torah? Does it exist? You want quantum physics to explain the big bang?
I mean, the Big Bang explanation is the easiest of all of them to reconcile with the Torah. The universe is expanding, therefore, there was a huge explosion from which it all radiated. You can find basically any Jewish book on science to explain that, no need for a specialty physicist.
Most scientists (atheist scientists) don't really believe the Big Bang happened, because it leaves the unanswered question of where the energy originated from and who initiated the bang. It forces the Creator theory. Stephen Hawking, one of the indomitable leaders of the physics world, believe more in a no-boundary element of creation, with the inherent possibilities of multiverses. It's actually kind of fascinating to read through some of his more recent advances, where he describes how time - all past, present, and future - all co-mingle in the flow of his eternal inflation theory.
That in itself has such interesting connotations for how Hashem exists beyond time, and what that is like for the state of our world. It also explains so many things like the medrash on the initial creation and destruction of seven worlds before us, how Hashem knows the future but bechira still exists, etc.
Kudos to you - physics is one of my hardest subjects, but also one of the most fascinating.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 8:03 pm
| imorethanamother wrote: | So what's the question on quantum physics as it relates to Torah? Does it exist? You want quantum physics to explain the big bang?
I mean, the Big Bang explanation is the easiest of all of them to reconcile with the Torah. The universe is expanding, therefore, there was a huge explosion from which it all radiated. You can find basically any Jewish book on science to explain that, no need for a specialty physicist.
Most scientists (atheist scientists) don't really believe the Big Bang happened, because it leaves the unanswered question of where the energy originated from and who initiated the bang. It forces the Creator theory. Stephen Hawking, one of the indomitable leaders of the physics world, believe more in a no-boundary element of creation, with the inherent possibilities of multiverses. It's actually kind of fascinating to read through some of his more recent advances, where he describes how time - all past, present, and future - all co-mingle in the flow of his eternal inflation theory.
That in itself has such interesting connotations for how Hashem exists beyond time, and what that is like for the state of our world. It also explains so many things like the medrash on the initial creation and destruction of seven worlds before us, how Hashem knows the future but bechira still exists, etc.
Kudos to you - physics is one of my hardest subjects, but also one of the most fascinating. |
Question on how old the universe is...also always wondered anout dinosaurs. quantum physics as it relates to the energy in matter and Hashem himself the source of all energy
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malki2
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 8:07 pm
| Ora in town wrote: | | RAmbam: there might be apparent contradictions between science and torah, we can accept both as true and have to recognise that we are not great enough to resolve the contradiction... |
The Rambam says this where, exactly?
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amother
Mistyrose
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 9:58 pm
The Science of Torah: The Reflection of Torah in the Laws of Science, The Creation of the Universe and the Development of Life
By R. Natan Slifkin
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malki2
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 10:24 pm
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | The Science of Torah: The Reflection of Torah in the Laws of Science, The Creation of the Universe and the Development of Life
By R. Natan Slifkin |
OP, I don’t know what circle of frumkeit you are from, but just a heads-up that many Rabbonim hold that Slifkin’s books are full of kefira.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 10:31 pm
| malki2 wrote: | | OP, I don’t know what circle of frumkeit you are from, but just a heads-up that many Rabbonim hold that Slifkin’s books are full of kefira. |
Ultra orthodox. Far right. 
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malki2
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Wed, Jun 03 2020, 10:42 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Ultra orthodox. Far right. |
Ok. So Rav Dovid Feinstein said that he read one of the books and there was not one page without kefira.
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malki2
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Thu, Jun 04 2020, 5:36 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Question on how old the universe is...also always wondered anout dinosaurs. quantum physics as it relates to the energy in matter and Hashem himself the source of all energy |
The Ramban in Bereishis speaks about how Hashem created everything from a substance called “Hiyuli” which can be understood to be a type of basic energy. The Lubavitcher Rebbi also about concepts related to quantum mechanics such as the uncertainty principle and the necessity of a conscious observer for reality to be determined.
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Ora in town
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Thu, Jun 04 2020, 6:25 am
| imorethanamother wrote: | So what's the question on quantum physics as it relates to Torah? Does it exist? You want quantum physics to explain the big bang?
I mean, the Big Bang explanation is the easiest of all of them to reconcile with the Torah. The universe is expanding, therefore, there was a huge explosion from which it all radiated. You can find basically any Jewish book on science to explain that, no need for a specialty physicist.
Most scientists (atheist scientists) don't really believe the Big Bang happened, because it leaves the unanswered question of where the energy originated from and who initiated the bang. It forces the Creator theory. Stephen Hawking, one of the indomitable leaders of the physics world, believe more in a no-boundary element of creation, with the inherent possibilities of multiverses. It's actually kind of fascinating to read through some of his more recent advances, where he describes how time - all past, present, and future - all co-mingle in the flow of his eternal inflation theory.
That in itself has such interesting connotations for how Hashem exists beyond time, and what that is like for the state of our world. It also explains so many things like the medrash on the initial creation and destruction of seven worlds before us, how Hashem knows the future but bechira still exists, etc.
Kudos to you - physics is one of my hardest subjects, but also one of the most fascinating. |
There is no contradiction between quantum physics and torah.
Quantum physics was developed to explain the structure of atoms... or originally, to explain why the night is not light, but dark...
The torah says nothing about atoms, and nothing about the smallest possible unit into which you can divide energy or space...
Last edited by Ora in town on Thu, Jun 04 2020, 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Success10
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Thu, Jun 04 2020, 6:29 am
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Torah Chazal & Science, Rabbi Moshe Meiselman. My husband reads and rereads and rereads it. It's a heavy, deep read.
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Ora in town
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Thu, Jun 04 2020, 6:30 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Ultra orthodox. Far right. |
I would just hold on to the Rambam I quoted and not try to resolve apparent contradictions...
If you are ultra-right, they think it is kefira to state that a stalactite cave took 30'000 years to form... because the world is only 5780 years old...
So if this is the crowd you are hanging out with, and you want to conform, you have to erase much of what you learned in science class...
However, with this Rambam, you can always explore the hypotheticals...
as long as you formulate "scientists think that"... you can explore pretty everything...
But don't hope it will reconcile...
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