Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Household Management -> Finances
I don't know how to talk to him about this
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jun 04 2020, 9:20 pm
My husband is a huge worrier and is a big saver. He never wants to spend money ever.
Every penny not spent is money saved and he says that our lifestyle (work in klei kodesh, growing family, in brooklyn) is one that needs us to spend as little as we can always.
We have what we need BH, but his perspective on what he considers extras is different to mine. He keeps the heating low and tells the kids to put on sweaters, our house is run down, certain food items he considers luxuries. He doesn't pay for convience and tries to do everything himself first. In some circles this is an ideal. For me its embarrassing. I just want to be normal.
I want to buy something new instead of waiting 10 months and 13 different at home hacks to see if we can figure out without buying it. I just want to be treated. I want to take some of our savings and use them. But conversations about big spending always end up a disaster.
He is not controlling the money or me, but I don't know how to talk to him and help him see beyond his perspective. He's extremely logical and it's hard arguing with logic.
Any advice?
Disclaimers: No he wont go to a financial advisor because - you guessed it- they charge. Yes I have full access to all accounts. Yes we have a budget and yes I do have a small amount that I use for my personal use (of course he never uses his fun money, he never needs anything). He doesn't care that we are within our budget, he doesn't even see the point of one, again, he just wants to save as much as possible always. Yes we own our home (mortgage). Yes we have a 6 month emergency fund.
Back to top

amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 2:10 am
Del

Last edited by amother on Tue, Jun 16 2020, 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 2:12 am
1- You mentioned he is in klei kodesh, does that mean you bring in the money?
2- Not turning on the heat!! I would definitely say he needs therapy, something like ocd ( if doesn't want to pay maybe take out of your fun money).
3- Can you explain his logic, maybe some can help you argue with his logic.
Side note: If he is in klei kodesh, being huge worrier as long as your not asking to go ultra luxurious.You are doing hishtadles, does he not believe all comes from Hashem?
Back to top

amother
Peach


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 2:22 am
In my experience, people who are stingy to the extreme have some sort of childhood trauma. Not necessarily related to money. But the money gives them a sense of security they never had. It's not your job to make him aware of this, but sometimes the simple awareness can allow him to loosen up a bit. I have similar money issues and I've spent a long time working to loosen up and trust Hashem.

Since he works in logic, I would talk to him in unemotional logic. Logic is a good thing. Emotions are much harder to argue with than logic.

At the end of the day (assuming you are being responsible and not careless) all money is predetermined by Hashem. Hashem wants you to be normal and going crazy over every little penny is abnormal hishtadlus, in my opinion.
Back to top

Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 2:51 am
It actually sounds a fairly normal kind of set up to me. That's pretty much how I grew up. I still keep the heat on a low background level, and put on a sweater before thinking of turning it up. To facilitate saving money, my father developed great skills as a handyman, and could fix most things around the house, as well as painting and decorating. (We all helped - or at least, we thought so!) Using an appliance until it was no longer fixable was standard practice.

There were, however, times when my mother put her foot down and said this is what we are doing. My father accepted her views, and when she did do that there were no arguments that I was ever aware of. The general culture was of economy and awareness of expenses, but if my mother decided that a certain expenditure was important, it happened.

I don't know if it's possible to foster something like that. There was a lot that I took for granted as a child, which seems more and more impressive when I look at it from an adult perspective. Not wasting money was an important value to my father, but honouring my mother was even more important to him. And she accepted his value of bring careful with money, but was more sympathetic to occasional 'emotional' needs to spend money, so when she felt it was important she would break his principles.

For that reason he also made an effort to buy her presents when appropriate. He happened to be an awful present buyer, but that's beside the point.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 8:07 am
amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:
1- You mentioned he is in klei kodesh, does that mean you bring in the money?
2- Not turning on the heat!! I would definitely say he needs therapy, something like ocd ( if doesn't want to pay maybe take out of your fun money).
3- Can you explain his logic, maybe some can help you argue with his logic.
Side note: If he is in klei kodesh, being huge worrier as long as your not asking to go ultra luxurious.You are doing hishtadles, does he not believe all comes from Hashem?


My husband brings in the money. I freelance and supplement the income.
We do turn on the heat but keep it a few degrees lower to save on our heating bill.
He says that living frugally is our hishtadlus.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 8:23 am
Elfrida wrote:
It actually sounds a fairly normal kind of set up to me. That's pretty much how I grew up. I still keep the heat on a low background level, and put on a sweater before thinking of turning it up. To facilitate saving money, my father developed great skills as a handyman, and could fix most things around the house, as well as painting and decorating. (We all helped - or at least, we thought so!) Using an appliance until it was no longer fixable was standard practice.

There were, however, times when my mother put her foot down and said this is what we are doing. My father accepted her views, and when she did do that there were no arguments that I was ever aware of. The general culture was of economy and awareness of expenses, but if my mother decided that a certain expenditure was important, it happened.

I don't know if it's possible to foster something like that. There was a lot that I took for granted as a child, which seems more and more impressive when I look at it from an adult perspective. Not wasting money was an important value to my father, but honouring my mother was even more important to him. And she accepted his value of bring careful with money, but was more sympathetic to occasional 'emotional' needs to spend money, so when she felt it was important she would break his principles.

For that reason he also made an effort to buy her presents when appropriate. He happened to be an awful present buyer, but that's beside the point.


This kind of sounds like us when Im not annoyed by his frugality Smile He does buy presents my birthday and anniversary (cheaper ones, not like a peice of jewelry but he never forgets).
I think this is the point: I can put my foot down but I don't know how or what warrants putting my foot down. He loves me and wants to be able to provide for us forever more, he's not saving because he wants to buy himself a Ferrari or whatever. He knows that he tends to be cheap and has worked on himself over the years but the bigger things are still roadblocks. He is happy for me to meet up with a friend for coffee, go out with my sisters, to buy myself a new dress etc (he wouldn't offer any of it to me because he just doesn't think of these things). I am careful with my spending and there is mutual trust regarding that.
But things for our house, a new car, trips, the bigger things ie anything over $200 or a new consistent expense I get "convinced" out of or we just don't do.
Its a lifestyle of making do with the minimum and saving the maximum, which is hard for me. I also want to enjoy my current life and feel normal. It's hard to live a lower standard of life than those around you.
Back to top

singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 8:40 am
OP, does he have a plan for the saved money? Or he just saving for saving?
Back to top

OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 8:55 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
He does buy presents my birthday and anniversary (cheaper ones, not like a peice of jewelry but he never forgets).
....
He is happy for me to meet up with a friend for coffee, go out with my sisters, to buy myself a new dress etc (he wouldn't offer any of it to me because he just doesn't think of these things). I am careful with my spending and there is mutual trust regarding that.
But things for our house, a new car, trips, the bigger things ie anything over $200 or a new consistent expense I get "convinced" out of or we just don't do.
Its a lifestyle of making do with the minimum and saving the maximum, which is hard for me. I also want to enjoy my current life and feel normal. It's hard to live a lower standard of life than those around you.

What he is doing seems to me like an appropriate balance for a family where the breadwinner is earning a modest income and the other spouse earns a minimal amount from freelancing.

Consider that your ability to work very few hours, all from home is, effectively, a large ongoing expense. Presumably he considers it worthwhile, since he is not bothering you to earn more money or go to work full time as we hear about many husbands here doing. I would factor this into your assessment of him as stingy vs. generous.
Back to top

amother
Seashell


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 9:21 am
OOTforlife wrote:
What he is doing seems to me like an appropriate balance for a family where the breadwinner is earning a modest income and the other spouse earns a minimal amount from freelancing.

Consider that your ability to work very few hours, all from home is, effectively, a large ongoing expense. Presumably he considers it worthwhile, since he is not bothering you to earn more money or go to work full time as we hear about many husbands here doing. I would factor this into your assessment of him as stingy vs. generous.


I agree that this is an appropriate balance for a family, but not your reasonings for it. A marriage is a partnership, where the work is mutually divided and decisions should be mutually decided. If they've agreed upon that he be the main breadwinner, and she be the primary homemaker, that doesn't mean one spouse gets more say in the goals of those areas.

The one who's doing the work may get more say in HOW its being done - I.e., the breadwinner decides on what job he/she wants to do, or the homemaker decides on how to go about cleaning up the house - but that's where it ends. The GOALS of those jobs - I.e. the financial arrangements, the atmosphere, chinuch and comfort in the home should be mutually decided.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 9:47 am
singleagain wrote:
OP, does he have a plan for the saved money? Or he just saving for saving?


The plan is to have savings for simchos and emergencies and retirement etc.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 9:53 am
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
I agree that this is an appropriate balance for a family, but not your reasonings for it. A marriage is a partnership, where the work is mutually divided and decisions should be mutually decided. If they've agreed upon that he be the main breadwinner, and she be the primary homemaker, that doesn't mean one spouse gets more say in the goals of those areas.

The one who's doing the work may get more say in HOW its being done - I.e., the breadwinner decides on what job he/she wants to do, or the homemaker decides on how to go about cleaning up the house - but that's where it ends. The GOALS of those jobs - I.e. the financial arrangements, the atmosphere, chinuch and comfort in the home should be mutually decided.


I have worked for many years but now cannot work so I do my best with freelance kinds of things at home, if things change and I can work more I will.
I do think this does play a big role in MY mind. When Im working I feel more entitled and more resentful, when Im not working I feel like I have less of a right to say anything as long as we can pay our bills.
I just feel like the money is sitting there (savings) but my house is falling apart but because it's not an emergency the status quo remains, do not spend.
Im ashamed to say this but we had a frozen pipe last winter in our bathroom last year and I was hoping it would break because then we would have to redo the disgusting bathroom.
Back to top

amother
Seashell


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 9:57 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I have worked for many years but now cannot work so I do my best with freelance kinds of things at home, if things change and I can work more I will.
I do think this does play a big role in MY mind. When Im working I feel more entitled and more resentful, when Im not working I feel like I have less of a right to say anything as long as we can pay our bills.
I just feel like the money is sitting there (savings) but my house is falling apart but because it's not an emergency the status quo remains, do not spend.
Im ashamed to say this but we had a frozen pipe last winter in our bathroom last year and I was hoping it would break because then we would have to redo the disgusting bathroom.


This is an unfortunate attitude so prevalent in our communities. The money belongs equally to both of you and the entitlement to the funds is equal. If you're the one doing the housework, is your husband less entitled to the food that you cook or to the comfort of the home? Or if you would be working, and your husband wouldn't, would you think he is less entitled to the funds you bring home?
Back to top

Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 10:10 am
OP, is your home functional, but not aesthetic? Does its current state make it difficult or impossible to use?

If everything is working, then I honestly don't understand what the problem is. You guys have savings on a klei kodesh salary - that's a near miracle. And your husband is right that you'll need those savings.

If you want a fresh colour in the bathroom, then use your dress money to get the can of paint. Everything else is available for the right price on Craigslist. And thank G-d you have such a wise husband.
Back to top

paperflowers




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 10:10 am
I think it’s a mistake to look at it as he being logical and you being emotional. You both have emotional needs. This is good and healthy. He has an emotional need for security and therefore saves as much money as he can to fill that need. Makes sense, but not necessarily more logical.

ETA: I just wanted to go back and add, in case it wasn’t clear, that you also have emotional needs that make sense, and he can’t just get his way because he claims it’s more logical.


Last edited by paperflowers on Fri, Jun 05 2020, 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 10:24 am
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
I agree that this is an appropriate balance for a family, but not your reasonings for it. A marriage is a partnership, where the work is mutually divided and decisions should be mutually decided. If they've agreed upon that he be the main breadwinner, and she be the primary homemaker, that doesn't mean one spouse gets more say in the goals of those areas.

The one who's doing the work may get more say in HOW its being done - I.e., the breadwinner decides on what job he/she wants to do, or the homemaker decides on how to go about cleaning up the house - but that's where it ends. The GOALS of those jobs - I.e. the financial arrangements, the atmosphere, chinuch and comfort in the home should be mutually decided.
Where did I say that one spouse gets more say? I think you totally misunderstood my reasoning. My reasoning was that having one spouse entirely at home is effectively a large household expense. That doesn't mean it's not a mutually decided expense. In OP's case it appears to be mutually decided, I.e. both spouses agree to it. In the posts here, it seemed like OP was overlooking this large expense in describing what her husband is and isn't willing to assent to.
Back to top

OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 10:26 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I have worked for many years but now cannot work so I do my best with freelance kinds of things at home, if things change and I can work more I will.
I do think this does play a big role in MY mind. When Im working I feel more entitled and more resentful, when Im not working I feel like I have less of a right to say anything as long as we can pay our bills.
I just feel like the money is sitting there (savings) but my house is falling apart but because it's not an emergency the status quo remains, do not spend.
Im ashamed to say this but we had a frozen pipe last winter in our bathroom last year and I was hoping it would break because then we would have to redo the disgusting bathroom.

How much money is "sitting there"? If it's just your 6 month emergency fund, then that is not something you should dip into for non-essential renovations in my opinion. If it's six years' worth of living expenses, then that's a whole other story.
Back to top

amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 10:36 am
Rappel wrote:
OP, is your home functional, but not aesthetic? Does its current state make it difficult or impossible to use?

If everything is working, then I honestly don't understand what the problem is. You guys have savings on a klei kodesh salary - that's a near miracle. And your husband is right that you'll need those savings.

If you want a fresh colour in the bathroom, then use your dress money to get the can of paint. Everything else is available for the right price on Craigslist. And thank G-d you have such a wise husband.


I agree with you.
But people don’t have that mentality today.
Everything has to be new and updated and the best. ( I am not saying op is like that)
The whole world is like that. Take phones for example. I am still using my hande down iphone 6. I have it for over 2 years. Why do I need a new one if this works perfectly fine?
Back to top

singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 10:37 am
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
I agree with you.
But people don’t have that mentality today.
Everything has to be new and updated and the best. ( I am not saying op is like that)
The whole world is like that. Take phones for example. I am still using my hande down iphone 6. I have it for over 2 years. Why do I need a new one if this works perfectly fine?


What you consider perfectly fine. Might be problematic for someone else. Maybe it's perfectly fine, but you have to charge it in the middle of the day. Someone else might not have the ability to charge it in the middle of the day. So for them it would not be perfectly fine.
Back to top

oneofakind




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2020, 11:32 am
You have to acknowledge your needs and see if you could afford it. If so, you put your foot down. Resentment is harmful in the long run.
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

Related Topics Replies Last Post
How to teach children not to talk to strangers
by amother
4 Yesterday at 3:49 pm View last post
I don't understand megillah
by amother
48 Yesterday at 3:46 am View last post
Well paying jobs that don't require math, compute or science 13 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:58 am View last post
Please don't bring babies or young children to megillah
by dena613
166 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 5:43 pm View last post
Don't have who to give shaloch manos
by amother
9 Sun, Mar 24 2024, 8:28 am View last post