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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Israeli Charedi vs. Lakewood School System
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 5:24 am
I went to school in Lakewood thru elementry school (Bnos Yaakov), my brothers where in a mainstream Lakewood school as well (the cheder), and then we made Aliya when I was in 9th grade.

Everyone talks about how much better the system is in America - but I had the opposite experience, I always say if I would have stayed in LKWD I would have gone OTD.
Specific points points that people tend to complain about where either worse or equal FOR US in Lakewood...

I'm not saying that Aliya is for everyone - or that there are no problems in the system, just that I feel like some americans compare the system in Israel to what they grew up with 20 years ago which doesn't reflect the American System today (or at least not Lakewood) and the Israeli System has loosened up as well....

Middos - the girls in my class in lakewood where nasty compared to my israeli class, and used money and status symbols to put other girls down/exclude (I managed to fit in but drove my parents crazy to get me the right STUFF). My brother is a little geeky wasn't good at sports downright bullied (beaten up) - in Israel the guys thought he was cool 'cause he was american and smart....

Getting into Schools/ Exclusivity both place are terrible about this - though lakewood has it in elementary as well, in israel its usually just high school


Rules/Rigidity - my Israeli high school didn't have nearly anything close to as many rules as my lakewood elementary - where Measure/Regulate EVERYTHING. A girl in my Lakewood class got expelled for having a texting phone. The boys in Israelschools did have a few more rules (collared shirts) but the cheder here in israel had no problem with them playing sports by recess, just not following pro sports....

Secular Studies How many lakewood boys high schools have secular studies?

Again I'm not saying there aren't issues here - just that there are in America as well and at the end of the day you need to evaluate for your kids what is best. I just hate when people get stuck on stereotypes about how amazing the system in in america, and how terrible it is in Israel....
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Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 5:32 am
I find your comparison fascinating. I'm not closely familiar with neither the Haredi nor Lakewood educational systems, and you've given me food for thought.

Did your brother find his place in Israeli society? Did you?
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Ora in town




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 5:47 am
My friend (RWMO-LWCH) made aliya (from Europe).

In Israel, she found schools that had curricula she could not have found here. Curricula that combined very strong chol with strong kodesh... But this was more Dati-Leumi, not chareidi...
actually there are quite a few parents in the "RWMO-LWchareidi"-area who make aliya or send their children to Israel at age 14 or so because they cannot find a school that fits their needs here...
As far as the social aspect is concerned: I like the Israeli approach to education in general, but I am more familiar with chiloni and dati-leumi, not with israeli chareidi... I have a feeling that the children get more empowered, and that there is more empathy in the education system...

However, my friend's children also had negative experiences where they were insulted because they came from abroad. the children were 5-12 when they made aliya...

All in all, I have the impression that the education system benefited the children, but it was not without problems, especially for the older ones...
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salt




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 6:04 am
byisrael wrote:

Secular Studies How many lakewood boys high schools have secular studies?



I'm not sure if here you're trying to say the lakewood schools have more or less secular studies, but the charedi high school yeshivot/ yeshivot ketanot that have secular studies are rare/ non-standard.

Also you missed out an important topic - fees!
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Ora in town




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 6:35 am
salt wrote:
I'm not sure if here you're trying to say the lakewood schools have more or less secular studies, but the charedi high school yeshivot/ yeshivot ketanot that have secular studies are rare/ non-standard.

Also you missed out an important topic - fees!


Isn't there an obligation to teach general studies up to a certain age? Over here it's 15 or 16...
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WitchKitty




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 6:37 am
salt wrote:
I'm not sure if here you're trying to say the lakewood schools have more or less secular studies, but the charedi high school yeshivot/ yeshivot ketanot that have secular studies are rare/ non-standard.

Also you missed out an important topic - fees!

I think she's trying to say that there's nothing to compare anyway 'cuz both don't do it.
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amother
Blush


 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 6:46 am
You went to a school in Lakewood that is notorious for the things you mentioned. Mine and my kids’ Lakewood school experiences were/are nothing like that.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 6:59 am
My impression is that most yeshivish people who make aliyah from the US aren't coming from Lakewood.
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SuperWify




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 7:13 am
I don’t think it’s fair to mention school names.
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 7:16 am
salt wrote:
I'm not sure if here you're trying to say the lakewood schools have more or less secular studies, but the charedi high school yeshivot/ yeshivot ketanot that have secular studies are rare/ non-standard.

Also you missed out an important topic - fees!


Most Lakewood boys High School's do not have secular studies, some do have a minimal (1 hour a day ) amount. Years ago all Yeshiva High Schools including the top ones had secular studies, but this is not an actual reflection of Lakewood 2020
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amother
Blush


 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 7:19 am
byisrael wrote:
Most Lakewood boys High School's do not have secular studies, some do have a minimal (1 hour a day ) amount. Years ago all Yeshiva High Schools including the top ones had secular studies, but this is not an actual reflection of Lakewood 2020

No they didn’t. This has always been a problem in Lakewood.
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amother
Beige


 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 7:41 am
the thing is we don't live in Lakewood. My dh wouldn't feel comfortable there, or in Israel currently. Where would OOT's who aren't zionistic, aren't really MO, or Chareidi... want to live in a house vs an apartment, have lots of greenery and not live over the greenline live?
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 7:44 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
My impression is that most yeshivish people who make aliyah from the US aren't coming from Lakewood.


That is true

But I think that it would only fair to compare the systems most similar to each other. It wouldn't make sense to compare the Isreali Charedi System to the Chassidish American System right? Or to the LWMO schools either, Lakewood would be the most comparable.

I have many Lakewood friends/ relatives who constantly say things like " I wish I could live in Eretz Yisroel but I can't because of the system" and I think it's ironic- they aren't that different.

And I (and my siblings) found the Israeli Charedi system easier to navigate the Lakewood System - and we did really well.
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WitchKitty




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 7:48 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
My impression is that most yeshivish people who make aliyah from the US aren't coming from Lakewood.

Where are they coming from?
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amother
Beige


 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 7:56 am
Cincinnati and Passaic both have people making Aliya. I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago... basically any yesheivish community has people who want to make Aliya. Plenty of places outside of Lakewood Wink
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 8:00 am
from what I've heard (I have many close relatives in Lkwd - I live in israel)
the ultra right wing lakewood school system over time is coming closer and closer to the israeli chareidi school system in many ways.

as far as nastiness/snobbiness of students within the system - thats not the school system itself though in a perfect world they would try to fix that through education, zero tolerance for bullying, etc.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 8:02 am
amother [ Beige ] wrote:
the thing is we don't live in Lakewood. My dh wouldn't feel comfortable there, or in Israel currently. Where would OOT's who aren't zionistic, aren't really MO, or Chareidi... want to live in a house vs an apartment, have lots of greenery and not live over the greenline live?
RBS
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 8:05 am
WitchKitty wrote:
Where are they coming from?
There is a WORLD of yeshivish people outside of lakewood Smile
And many yeshivish people make aliyah Smile
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 8:10 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
There is a WORLD of yeshivish people outside of lakewood Smile
And many yeshivish people make aliyah Smile


Comparing apples to apples - I would think that the Lakewood school system most closely resembles the Israeli Charedi school system. Hence the title.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 10 2020, 8:12 am
I wonder which school system you went to after your move.

I have close relatives who made aliyah from Lakewood a few years ago, with a large and growing family. Some of their kids did very well with the move, but at least one did not make it in the Israeli school system. Going thru a rough time.

I've raised my girls in the Lakewood school system. Sure, every grade has a couple of fakers - girls who often fool even the staff into thinking they have great middos, while they bully their classmates. But B"H my girls have plenty of friends with great middos. I'm sorry for your experience, but I wouldn't call that universal here.

Also, I didn't insist on getting my kids into the most elite schools, and B"H we did not have a hard time with acceptance to high school. Oddly enough, "I'm much better than you" has never been a value I wanted to impart to my kids, anyway.

Honestly, I wish I lived in E"Y, but when my close relative made aliyah, my kids wanted reassurance that we weren't planning to spring that on them. I think if couples start out there and it works out for them, that's great (there were reasons why DH and I didn't, and we asked sheilos as an engaged couple about it) but telling people to uproot their family and move is risky and would not work for everyone. It has to involve alot of thought into each child and whether the move will be good for them.
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