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Thinking of Aliyah
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 2:31 am
I've been thinking about aliyah for a while and with everything going on in the world I'm wondering if it could work for my family. We are oot yeshivish but I wouldn't be able to classify as strict chareidi. I'm wondering which areas would be a good fit for my family and how expensive these area would be. This is very preliminary and any info greatly appreciated! Tia Very Happy
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 2:40 am
So many people I know are talking about Aliya now . I believe your can find your type of a community in RBS. Lots of yeshivish but not too yeshivish people there. I’m not familiar with all the neighborhoods there but I know that some places are cheaper than others and lots of school options .
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twizzlers1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 2:47 am
I live in RBS. I'm happy to answer your questions if you want to send me a private message. someone else did this through I'ma mother and I really think that I was able to answer quite a few of her questions. I actually had a really long phone conversation with her. I just find it takes too much time if someone is serious just through messages back and forth. I think we are probably the type of crowd that you are. We are very happy here.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 2:48 am
RBS will be a very soft landing for you. Tons of school options. Check out the NBN page on RBS. Gimmel or gimmel 2 is more affordable and lots of yeshivish families live there.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 2:54 am
I considered moving to RBS gimmel recently but just a heads up that there's little to no phone reception there (nightmare using waze because we couldn't get klita) and expect a very hilly landscape, which is difficult for moms with strollers.

On the other hand, people were nice, plenty 'chutznikim' (outsiders) and plenty beautiful apartments. Just a heads up that many apartment owners have done illegal stuff in the building of their apartments (we saw places where they extended their garden into a mountain area which wasn't theirs, added rooms without permission etc). Apparently there's a new Rosh ha'Ir (mayor?) who has zero tolerance and people could face huge fines and having parts of their homes destroyed. Check this in advance that everything is 'above board'.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:22 am
Rechovot might be a good fit. Lots of OOT Americans. They are having a zoom meet the community today and are talking about aliya. To register email chatamelevatorproject@gmail.com
It's today at 2.30est time.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:26 am
Do OOT Yeshivish types have hatzlocha in raising their kids in Israeli Chareidi society? I live in a very chareidi neighborhood, but deep down inside, we're more chilled, and we try to hide it. I would consider moving to a more open neighborhood like RBS, but I feel like that might not be in the best interest of the kids, since most of Israeli Chareidi society is more straight laced, and we'd just be running from that reality. Anyone get what I mean? Anyone have any feedback on what it's like to raise kids with a more relaxed Chareidi hashkafa in Israel? Sorry to derail the thread.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:57 am
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
Do OOT Yeshivish types have hatzlocha in raising their kids in Israeli Chareidi society? I live in a very chareidi neighborhood, but deep down inside, we're more chilled, and we try to hide it. I would consider moving to a more open neighborhood like RBS, but I feel like that might not be in the best interest of the kids, since most of Israeli Chareidi society is more straight laced, and we'd just be running from that reality. Anyone get what I mean? Anyone have any feedback on what it's like to raise kids with a more relaxed Chareidi hashkafa in Israel? Sorry to derail the thread.


I'm in RBS, and there's a lot of room here for that. We're not like the pressure cookers of Yerushalaim or even Beitar. I send to mainstream Chareidi and while we're chilled, we're also compliant with school rules - I think that's very important, so the child doesn't get a mixed message. But here in RBS they have more 'chilled but chareidi' schools.

I'll be explicit: cell phones for example. There are BY high schools here where both the girls and their parents need to have kosher phones (parents can have 'mugan' smart phones from Nativ or Hadran). There are also high schools still considered BY that allow parents to have trefe phones. Ditto different elementary schools that are BY but have different rules about media consumption.

You being in cognizance with the school is very important.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 4:05 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
I considered moving to RBS gimmel recently but just a heads up that there's little to no phone reception there (nightmare using waze because we couldn't get klita) and expect a very hilly landscape, which is difficult for moms with strollers.

On the other hand, people were nice, plenty 'chutznikim' (outsiders) and plenty beautiful apartments. Just a heads up that many apartment owners have done illegal stuff in the building of their apartments (we saw places where they extended their garden into a mountain area which wasn't theirs, added rooms without permission etc). Apparently there's a new Rosh ha'Ir (mayor?) who has zero tolerance and people could face huge fines and having parts of their homes destroyed. Check this in advance that everything is 'above board'.


1. Not every phone service works everywhere. I moved to Gimmel a few months ago and we switched providers. From HOT to Cellcom and went from no service in the house to full service. But even with HOT we had service outside. Thousands of people live here. Gimmel is a full built neighborhood. Why are you saying there’s no cell service at all?! Cell service in Israel is complicated. We’ve switched 3 times because each apartment we lived in worked best with a different provider.

2. Illegal building is an issue all over the country. Something only happens if a neighbor calls the municipality. I know someone in Jerusalem building illegally for months. It was almost done until a neighbor called and it was knocked down. Please don’t give RBS a bad name like that. These problems aren’t unique to RBS.

3. Aleph is hilly too. Actually most of Israel is hilly. Jerusalem is hilly. Gimmel is not worse than any other place. Just access where you want to live and accessing where everything is and the best spot to go up the least amount of hills.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 4:05 am
Dh's cell phone is the main issue, yes. He doesn't want a kosher smartphone. We don't let our kids use the technology. BH tznius is not an issue. We follow halacha, but we're not into doing "frum" things with no basis in halacha just to stay school. But that is our reality so do those things, and at times I feel like we are living a double life. I honestly don't know if I would want to send to a school that allows treife phones, since the level of tznius of the mothers and daughters might not be what we follow at all.

But my main question is how do those kids turn out? As long as they are in the RBS bubble, they are fine, but how do they fair when they enter mainstream Israeli society? Are they confused/resentful?
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 4:14 am
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
Dh's cell phone is the main issue, yes. He doesn't want a kosher smartphone. We don't let our kids use the technology. BH tznius is not an issue. We follow halacha, but we're not into doing "frum" things with no basis in halacha just to stay school. But that is our reality so do those things, and at times I feel like we are living a double life. I honestly don't know if I would want to send to a school that allows treife phones, since the level of tznius of the mothers and daughters might not be what we follow at all.

But my main question is how do those kids turn out? As long as they are in the RBS bubble, they are fine, but how do they fair when they enter mainstream Israeli society? Are they confused/resentful?


I made Aliyah as a teen and jumped into the Israel BY system in a Israeli area. Later moving down to the central area Jerusalem/RBS/Beitar

If you aren’t willing to make sacrifices for your kids schools you won’t last here. I’m sorry to be blunt. It’s NOT about Halacha. Maybe to them. But if you want your kids in good schools you will need to change your lifestyle some. If your kids get a messages that your home lifestyle is wrong in school and at home you bash the school for their stupid rules - that’s the biggest issue here. That’s what makes kids confused and resentful and go OTD.

The right perspective is to make some sacrifices. But tell your kids this isn’t under the banner of Halacha. But rather if it’s a school policy we need to follow it and respect even if we don’t fully agree. About the phone you can be upright to a school and say we are willing to follow these policies. But this one doesn’t work for us, we asked a Rav and this is what our family does. Your kid also learns that there’s different opinions and you aren’t going AGAINST school policy but rather you had to choose to do things differently for your circumstances and asked daas Torah.


Either way you will have to go along with archaic rules that don’t make sense and have an awesome attitude about it.

If the kids have the right perspective they leave the bubble integrated. If they are heard negativity and feel your resentment to society and the rules here it will be passed to them and that won’t go so well.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 4:18 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
I considered moving to RBS gimmel recently but just a heads up that there's little to no phone reception there (nightmare using waze because we couldn't get klita) and expect a very hilly landscape, which is difficult for moms with strollers.

Did you check with people who live there. A lot of times when there is bad cell reception there is one provider that does work. Where I live there was a time when one specific provider didn’t work here. Which isn’t a problem of you lived here, people just switched providers. It is annoying for visitors.

OP -
Examine very well what makes you yeshivish rather than other streams in Judaism you might fit in well in a Torani DL community or a more mixed community (such as Rechovot). There are posters here who made this choice and are very happy. I’m not telling you to switch you’re observance but things are different here, you might discover that you are more comfortable being you and following the same derech you’ve always followed in a DL our mixed area.
Just write down a few lines about your derech and hashkafa. You might discover that in Israel you wouldn’t be considered Yeshivish our chareidi.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 5:08 am
what type of house/apt can you get for 400-450k in RBS? american frum, not even super yeshivish, just plain frum and have black hats type
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saramalka




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 5:09 am
RBS is great for many types of families. There is the whole gamut of haskafas
You have kids who integrated very well into real Israeli chareidi society. I have a few children like that.
It depends on you and on your child. The schools you choose and the messages you give over
Cellphone reception varies all over the country.
You may need to pick a provider once you find your apartment
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saramalka




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 5:11 am
For 450k it will be an apartment, unless you have a large mortgage.
You should speak to real estate agents
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 5:14 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
what type of house/apt can you get for 400-450k in RBS? american frum, not even super yeshivish, just plain frum and have black hats type


That's about 1.5 million shekels. For RBS gimmel you're definitely talking about an apartment, not a house. 3 or 4 rooms (not bedrooms, rooms) and approx 80 something square meters.

For those complaining that I'm calling out on the illegal building, it's most certainly not something which happens all over Israel. It's a predominantly haredi and Arab issue, and I"ve never seen anything like it in the merkaz.

For reception, the woman trying to sell us an apartment in the area even apologized about it and said it was a big problem (but at least less problems of radiation! yep, doesn't help us much)
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 5:18 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
what type of house/apt can you get for 400-450k in RBS? american frum, not even super yeshivish, just plain frum and have black hats type
If you want a house, you are talking at least 100 k more. House are over 2 million shekels, way more.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 5:20 am
saramalka wrote:
You should speak to real estate agents

This. I had good experiences with Sunrise Israel, they all speak English too and had loads of very good properties to offer. Rivka Landesman is wonderful and frum.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 5:28 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
what type of house/apt can you get for 400-450k in RBS? american frum, not even super yeshivish, just plain frum and have black hats type

Again you too should define what being just plain frum means to you. You might find that you will thrive in communities that are NOT chareidi at all here.
I see that a lot of people struggle unnecessarily trying to blend into chareidi usually society when that’s not their derech at all. I mean if that’s you by all means - go for it and listen to the good advice here. But you should know that things are different here and externals like a black hat or a sheital spring define your hashkafa when your practice and derech is completely different.
It is not worth it to try to shove a square peg into a circle (or however you say it in English).
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Success10




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 14 2020, 5:34 am
chanchy123 wrote:
Again you too should define what being just plain frum means to you. You might find that you will thrive in communities that are NOT chareidi at all here.
I see that a lot of people struggle unnecessarily trying to blend into chareidi usually society when that’s not their derech at all. I mean if that’s you by all means - go for it and listen to the good advice here. But you should know that things are different here and externals like a black hat or a sheital spring define your hashkafa when your practice and derech is completely different.
It is not worth it to try to shove a square peg into a circle (or however you say it in English).


Can someone who is not idealistically Zionist, but otherwise similar in observance and dress, fit in to a Torani community? I think the kids would be confused, no?
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