What stuff to buy to help her fit in to camp

PeanutMama

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 5:55 am

Ora in town wrote:

That's what I meant above. It's not that someone would be rejected by "the outside world" because they wear, as you said, "full chassidish garb". It's more that chassidim themselves tend to isolate themselves from the outside world and are not so much interested in striking up friendships with anyone who would not wear "full chassidic garb". I have the impression that there is a lot of misperception around this subject: that chassidim feel rejected or intimidated, while really they are very hesitant to build up deeper relations to anyone who is not exactly like them...

I would like to know why...

I wasn’t born into chasidus but I see this all the time.

Last edited by PeanutMama on Mon, Jun 15 2020, 5:57 am; edited 1 time in total

keym

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 6:04 am

My daughter is a "normal" healthy friendly teen. She has friends and is well liked.
Due to various stuff, she is very self conscious and suffers from low self esteem.
She could wear whatever she wants. No one will look. But she feels like everyone is staring at her, laughing at her.
Of course we're getting her help. But building up her esteem and confidence is a lifetime of work.
It's easy to blame the other girls. Their mothers. BUT THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING. THEY DON'T CARE IF SHE WEARS A JUICY SWEATSHIRT OR A WALMART ONE!!!!! But she does.
So yeah we buy some stuff every season. The "in" looseleaf or pencil case. A trendy sweatshirt or shoes.
If she was going to camp, we'd buy her a camp chair and tutu.
So she feels good.

Please don't quote me in case I choose change to anonymous to protect my daughter.

freilich

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 6:05 am

DrMom wrote:

What is a "nerdy" brand?

And why would anyone encourage something so shallow as judging someone based on which company manufactured her shoes?

It just boggles the mind that a community that is supposed to be Torah-centric would care about something so silly.... and inculcate this attitude in their children.

I find myself agreeing a lot with Ora in this thread.

You do realize that the discussion here is about teenagers Wink

I believe most of us have outgrown these shenanigans a while already.

This mother is simply trying to help her daughter be comfortable at a time in her life when nothing feels comfortable.

Ze hu.

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 6:34 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

It doesn’t.

Whatever. You’re the poster who once accused me of never having met anyone outside my own little box. 😂😂😂

You have a very difficult time perceiving things outside of your own little box. You just don’t see it.

She is also the poster who accused me of forcing my children into a box, with no reason or backing to her claim. She did so persistently and, at least from my perception, rather abusively. She tried hard to invalidate me as a parent - one of the areas I consider most important from anything else in my life.

I never talk to a poster the way another poster did to her on this thread, but my sentiments match it, to be perfectly honest. She got what she deserved.

It's okay to say your point of view respectfully, and move on. It's not okay to persistently try to shove your view down everyone's collective throats.

ETA: an update, I have worked things out with this poster. Sometimes we don't realize how our words/posts feel to someone online. the poster did not mean to be hurtful, and I appreciate that she reached out to me and explained. I have accepted her apology and would like to move on.

Last edited by Chayalle on Mon, Jun 15 2020, 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total

PeanutMama

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 6:41 am

sequoia wrote:

Yeah, I’m not sure what exactly you were imagining, but the day will come when the school tells you to cut off contact with your family, or they kick your kid out.

Youth and idealism are bad advisors for major life decisions.

What?! This is for real??????

I’m a giyores. I’ve been told time to time again that my kids are gonna get bullied, we won’t ever be accepted 100%.....
And I posted this question before in the chasidish velt if the above was true, most said nooo not true...we loooove converts

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 6:43 am

Catcher wrote:

I think buying a teenager one or two items which qualify as on-trend is not a bad idea. But to go for an entire top-to-toe brand-name outfit is not necessary and doesn't convey the values that we want to impart.
You want your child to be accepted for who she is, not what she owns or how fashionable she is. Comfort is paramount, especially for active teens. If she's dead set on getting the latest sneakers, and perhaps can even contribute to the cost out of her own savings, I can't see whats wrong with that.

This.

Many years ago, a woman wrote a letter to The Jewish Observer (anyone remember that?) that I wish I had clipped and framed, as it's something I live by.

In the letter she said that the one or two luxuries she allowed herself (in her case, it was a nice sheitel, and I don't remember what else) that satisfied a certain need in her, and gave her the strength to live simply and minimally in other areas.

I've found this principle to help me tremendously in raising my children. Sometimes, fulfilling a certain need of theirs to have something that helps them fit in, or feel special, or whatever....gives them enough, and then they don't need in in every single other area. (Note: I've found that some kids simply "need" more than others, so then it's 3 or 4 things you give in on for that kid, instead of 1 or 2...) Your child may not need a wardrobe full of hardtail skirts and shirts, but one outfit that she can choose to make herself feel "with it" or whatever,may help, and you can squeeze yourself for that.

My 12 year old wanted a certain pair of sneakers, and I got it for her. She's so excited and keeps telling me how much she likes them. The rest of her wardrobe is pretty basic and inexpensive, but this is helping her feel so confident, it's worth those extra $$.

Chanoch L'naar Al Pi Darko....so that when they grow up, they have fond memories of those silly things they thought were IT in their childhood, but are glad their parents understood them....

Blessing1

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 6:49 am

Hashem_n_Farfel wrote:

This is not true at all.
No school will ever tell you to cut contact with family.

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 6:51 am

sequoia wrote:

I just want to comment on the idea that every society has these exact standards of what’s “trendy” or not.

I have NOT found that to be the case among my generation in the secular world.

A woman of my mom’s generation once remarked to me that I should dress zexier, wear makeup, etc. But in my age group, it really is all about individuality.

Of my female friends here:

1. One dresses f-tish/goth, with corsets, black lipstick, piercings, temporary tattoos, kinky boots, and all black clothing

2. One dresses in a cutesy way, with colorful minidresses, tons of makeup (I took the overnight train with her... girl set an alarm for six am to do her makeup), and looong flowing hair

3. One dresses in a wholesome way, in loose sweaters, plain jeans or skirts, curly hair, glasses, and no makeup but still looks awesome

4. One wears pantsuits, office-style makeup, neat haircut, nice shoes, and jewelry

5. And I wear t-shirts, maxi skirts, and ballet flats

And I swear no one is “in” or “out” and no one is trying to imitate anyone else.

It seems frum society is more dedicated to fitting in than the world at large.

Sequoia, I think you may not realize how blessed you are to have such an amazing group of accepting friends. But I don't think the secular world is free of prejudices.

Are we in the same age group? I have a non-Jewish coworker who feels excluded by others on the team on a social level (I happen to work from home, not in the same town as the company I work for. so it's a non-issue for me, and I've become the listening ear....) They go to lunch and socialize after work and exclude her, and it's definitely (IMVHO) because she's a little bit different, doesn't fit in with them, etc...(in case anyone is wondering, though, she is white and the others are a mix, so it's not about race.)

happyfaces

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 9:16 am

Ora in town wrote:

My question remains: Why would mom rely on "stylish items" for her daughter to feel secure?

I understand that teenagers themselves might believe they need "stylish items" to "fit in", and if they express desires in this sense, I would yield to a certain extend. (e.g. give them a budget and let them buy what they want)

But going on a research mission as mother... and finding dozens of mothers who confirm that this is very important... that's a whole different ball game...

As stated before, you can start a spin off. It's extremely rude to keep on hijacking this thread.

Learning

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 10:41 am

Dd is 14. She does her own shopping online and in store. I know that there are brand names and trendy stuff. She has a group of friends that make it a point not to buy the most expensive stuff or a lot of it. But she does have fun with it. She sometimes buy a cute brand name sweater for example. But this whole thing is a non issue. I think once you have a teen with a problem everything becomes an issue. She has friends with less money who never buy expensive stuff but she is completely not taking it as a point against them. She really doesn’t care. If your family is strong and instill self confidence nothing really is a big issue. Unfortunately not every family is strong and confident as they wish they would be. Teens tend to be prone to peer pressure especially in a society like ours that is very small compare to the whole wide world. I wish life would be perfect for everyone especially children.

giselle

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 3:33 am

I have no problem with the OP wanting to help her daughter fit in. I think it’s important to help your child fit in to whatever crowd they are part of. In fact I told my son I’ll buy him a smaller wardrobe to start with in yeshiva so that he can let me know if he wants specific shirts/pants that other boys are wearing. The yeshiva is in a different city, and I know how important these things can be. But sometimes the attitude here is a little pathetic. Sorry, just saying it how it is. Not directed toward OP at all, but some other posts, and not just on this thread either. The level of needing to conform exactly (by adults) comes from a deep insecurity. And this is coming from someone like myself who probably places too much value on shallow things like looks and dress. This needing to have exactly the same brand as every other person is not something I’m used to. I have friends who are more obsessed with fashion than I am and they’re still not like this. They love looking good, but they have no problem wearing any brand from any store. I see a lot of fashion influencers on Instagram post Walmart and Target clothing in the same post as Gucci and Prada. I have no problem buying my kids the right brands, but I do think it’s a little pathetic that nearly every single girl is wearing the exact same adidas sneakers. It’s very reflective on the society.