Aliyah - my two cents

Rappel

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:19 am

salt wrote:

Of course all Jews are included in Klal Yisrael, but only Jews.

I used to be very חריף on this issue - that only Jews can come in, and that's final.

But I actually know three giyorot whom had trouble getting their giyur from their home countries recognized. They each came here on the parent/grandparent clause, and then were able to formalize their giyur here through the Rabbanut. There is a place for the ger toshav in Israel, and a halachic structure for it which makes sense. I'd be happy if they modified the law thus.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:19 am

Ora in town wrote:

If you start to pick and chose, there might be groups in Israel, perhaps even a majority, who might oppose encouraging or funding the aliya for people who do not intend to serve in IDF...
So it might not be a good idea to pick and chose...

This. Definitely far more people would support not funding the aliyah of people who won't serve, than not funding the aliyah of Reform Jews.

BTW Reform Judaism has started to catch on a bit in Israel. Definitely conservative and conservadox have caught on. It's not like it once used to be, only an American thing.

amother

Blue

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:19 am

Ora in town wrote:

How is this diatribe polite and respectful?

My original statement was respectful.

When I am attacked for stating my thoughts, sometimes I explain myself too much, and it seems like that's what I did here.

amother

Blue

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:22 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

I assure you that 80% of Israelis would be perfectly fine with most Women of the Wall making Aliyah.
And if not 80%, then definitely 60 or 70%.

If you asked an Israeli on the street, who would you prefer make Aliyah, a Reform family whose sons will serve in the army, whose parents are academics and earn good salaries, or a family whose sons will not serve, and who earn so little that they will need government support to survive - which family do you think most Israelis think is 'better' for Israel?

As others said, thankfully they are all welcome here. Thankfully you are not in charge.

Uhhmmm it's not just charedim who don't serve in the army....there are lots of rich leftists who don't either...there are also chareidim who earn good salaries, chareidim who serve in the army, and a large percentage of chareidim who do not take support from the government at all.

I don't know why you brought chareidim into the picture at all but your stereotypes are so wrong.

Oh and it also depends which Israeli you ask, most of the secular Israelis I know prefer Jews who respect tradition and don't expect the working class to cater to their entertainment needs.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:22 am

Btw for all those talking about merkaz klita. I've never lived in one, but I've read and heard that conditions there are often quite substandard. It's really only a temporary stop for people who are very desperate.

If someone can afford to live in a rented apartment, it's usually better.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:27 am

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

Why on earth would you think the second family in my example was charedim? Did I say or use the word 'chareidim' anywhere?
YOU are the one stereotyping! You automatically assumed I was talking about chareidim because I said the sons don't serve in the army and the family lives off gov't support.

As for leftists - who said anything about left or right? Obviously there are many leftists that don't serve. And if you asked a typical Israeli if a left-wing American who refuses to serve should have his Aliya funded and his plane ticket paid for, they would probably say NO.

Rappel

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:27 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

For sure. But if your alternate option is a tent,
as the OP proposed, then trust me: a merkaz klitah is a softer landing. LOL

amother

Emerald

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:28 am

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

Oh and it also depends which Israeli you ask, most of the secular Israelis I know prefer Jews who respect tradition and don't expect the working class to cater to their entertainment needs.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

banana123

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:31 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

It's also very hard to find a place in a merkaz klita.

amother

Blue

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:33 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

It was pretty obvious: Jews whose kids often don't serve in the army bshita, where there are lots of kids and the parents don't get academic degrees.

If you weren't talking about the chareidim then pray do tell, who were you referring to? Because playing "taboo" doesn't mean you didn't stereotype.

salt

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:34 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

OP wrote:

Please STOP generalizing, as if our lives are clones of each other! If you only only knew the situations of at least some Americans, you'd eat crow a zillion times!! I'm tempted to snap a few pics just for the shock factor, geared toward certain Israeli's who in their wildest dreams can't imagine the living conditions of some Americans. But even more than that, who can take pics. of bodywide physical pain? That's not something which is explainable superficially.

This type of American that OP is talking about would surely be prepared to live in a Merkaz Klita.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:41 am

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

You made the assumption.
I didn't say 'chareidi' on purpose. Because that's not the issue, that's not the thing that some Israelis would possibly object to, but the fact the sons don't serve, and their income requires support through various channels.
I didn't say chareidi because there are many chareidim who do serve. My sons served and still serve with some of them.
I didn't say chareidi because many (maybe most?) chareidim don't take government support.

I gave a hypothetical example of a family with traits that Israelis would object to far more than they would object to a Reform family.
I don't know anyone on my street on in my office who would object to a Reform family making aliya. So you really should stop making assumptions about Israelis.

And this whole conversation is not so pleasant. ALL Israelis are welcome here, including those whose sons don't serve (which is NOT ok in my book. But even though I adamantly oppose forcing only some men to serve, I still think they should all be allowed in, their Aliyah supported and funded like anyone else's).

amother

Denim

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:46 am

This thread is so confusing.
As an olah myself Married to an Oleh living among many other Olim we all know that "Eretz Yisrael Niknet Byisurim".
We all go through our own set of struggles coming here, but when we come out from the other side we all really feel like this land is our home and there can never be any other.
Sometimes our struggles are similar to those of other and sometimes unique to us.
But on a communal and personal level I know that we will support any Oleh that asks for help. We can't make the struggles go away, but we can be there to help.
So dear op, what is it that you need in order to make Aliya.
I doubt you really need a tent city...
There is so much infrastructure set up ESPECIALLY for Americans.

imasoftov

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:52 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If you only only knew the situations of at least some Americans, you'd eat crow a zillion times!!

According to this article, crows are a protected species here in Israel.

Last edited by imasoftov on Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:18 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:53 am

I'm very confused because I know a few people who recently made aliyah and its not that difficult?
I mean, yes if you want to live in a specific neighborhood then it may be hard to find your dream apartment for your budget. There is a culture shock obviously but the actual aliyah is not that big of a deal.
Lots of paperwork but there are organizations that help you deal with it and everyone is very eager to help.

So yes- the infrastructure for aliyah is definitely there!

I also don't understand if you'd be willing to live in a tent why you would need so much stuff😁

But regardless you ship your stuff and you can move into an actual house or apartment, especially, if you have no problem living out of a few big cities

So if you want to come then come!

essie14

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:06 am

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

Can you please specify what help an American family would get?
My son actually did serve as a lone soldier.....
How do families with mostly teens make aliya?

What do you mean, how?
You open a tik with nefesh b'nefesh.
You gather all your paperwork. birth certificates, marriage certificates, passports etc.
You need a letter from a rabbi certifying that you are Jewish.
You get accepted for aliyah.
You probably would want to come on a pilot trip to check out communities and schools.
Schedule some appointments with real estate agents in different cities to look at apartments.
Once you decide where you want to live, find a place to rent. Enroll kids in school.
Schedule aliyah flight (which is free)
Decide if you are bringing a lift. Pack the items for the lift and schedule the shipment.
Pack your suitcases. board the plane. Land in Israel. boom, you're all Israeli citizens.
You will receive sal klita for 6 months and then a rent subsidy for another 6 months (I may be fuzzy on the exact length of time, I made aliyah 9 years ago)
Everyone receives free ulpan.
There are grants for certain professionals to obtain certification in Israel.

What other specific questions do you have?