Hosting + dietary restrictions: how much do you accommodate?

amother

Lavender

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 3:20 am

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

I remember that thread! unbelievable that you managed it... kol a kavod! how are you? thinking about you when on imamother

BH everyone's a year older, making things a whole lot easier! We left our old city (even further away from our vegan guests bH!) and things have improved a great deal. Ups and downs but you know how it is.

amother

Powderblue

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 3:36 am

I'm a happy pesco-vegetarian, and have been for more than twenty years. Meaning I'm never fleishig. (The "pesco" prefix means I eat fish.) That's the way I describe myself to people who invite me for a meal. Then I always add the company is more important to me than the meal, and please don't make anything special.

Ninety-nine percent of the time, there's a green salad or something else I'll eat. I always have hard-boiled eggs in my refrigerator so that I can come home and eat one if I think I need the protein.

In today's world, there's at least four, and I've seen up to twelve, definitions of types of vegetarians. If a vegetarian doesn't define in the first phone call what s/he will not eat, you shouldn't drive yourself crazy or feel guilty about planning your menu.

Btw, the reason I tell people "I'm never fleishig" is because I think that's a succinct way of phrasing it. I'm still surprised at the number of people who assumed chicken soup would be fine.

Mayflower

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 4:38 am

OP, that sounds very hard and unreasonable. I don't think there's any reason to make ALL dishes fleishig even at a fleishig meal. When we have vegetarian guests Friday night, they'll skip the fish. I'll make a vegetable soup. Main course is always kugel (parve), ferfel (same), salads and chicken... So they'll just skip the chicken and I'll make an extra kugel or salad. For shabbos lunch, I'll make sure the chulent is parve (and serve cold cuts on the side for the others) and kugel...

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

And then it turns out that the whole philosophical bit was not that important, after all, because for dogs it's allowed to kill animals? Just not for humans?

Uhm yeah, that's exactly it. You can't understand philosophically that one has a different standard for humans than for animals?

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 5:35 am

I was a vegetarian for many years but now for the past 20 years do eat meat on Shabbos if I can handle it (many weeks I’m not up to it...I find it really unappetizing but sometimes do try). Expecting vegetarians to eat around meat in a dish is unreasonable, nearly all vegetarians I know would get grossed out.

In my vegetarian days I did have experiences where people knew I was vegetarian but served deli salad and no other salads, I always felt that was a bit mean although I know they were just clueless. Some people just aren’t flexible thinkers so you can’t expect them to do things differently based on who they’re hosting that week. Then some people do try to accommodate but end up serving stuff you don’t want to eat, like the very nice lady who opened one of those vacuum packed silken tofu containers, let the rectangle of tofu plop out onto a plate, drizzled it with soy sauce and served it to me! I do think OP that you need to get in the habit of bringing your own food with a good hechsher when you go to SIL, there are some people who just aren’t going to accommodate you and it’s best to quietly make sure you have adequate food without feeling resentful. Since she’s family and you go a lot, I would bring hummus, a can of chickpeas (put a little olive oil and zaatar on them), baby carrots, and grape tomatoes. If it were just a one time guest situation, I wouldn’t bring that stuff, but this is a regular thing so it’s different.

amother

Salmon

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:16 am

Everyone is different and I would not take it personally. For some it is "enough" for them to do their routine Shabbos meal while thinking there are still sides, challah, and the like for anyone who is vegetarian for example.
I kept to a vegetarian diet for years and made sure to bring as you note things like salads, veggie dips, and whatever else I wanted to have, like nuts for myself in my room. I felt like the onus was on me to take care of it and I did not want to have my hosts/family go to any extra trouble. I would tell them we are going for the company not the food Smile

.
If they can do everything in order to host then I can take care of picking up or making humus and the like.
Some people love patchking, cooking, baking, and/or have the time and energy to do it and those folk would ask what they could make like a ratatouille.
You said she has eight kids K"H so I am thinking it is amazing she is hosting at all Wink

I would want to do what I could to lighten her load.

amother

Indigo

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:18 am

Maybe we can break down the situation:

1. The guest was picky, demanding and ungrateful.
2. You accommodated the requests to the point of being resentful.
3. If you don't eat meat, then of course you don't eat chicken soup. It's liquid meat.
4. If you truly can't face killing animals, you shouldn't own a pet that eats meat. You're just adding to the problem.
5. Making a lentil soup and rice and chick peas isn't that hard.
6. It's totally fine to say, I'd love your company but I'm having trouble cooking for your requirements. Would you mind bringing X with you when you come?
7. Part of hosting is making guests comfortable. It's ok to stretch yourself and do something you think is unnecessary and/or hypocritical just for hachnossos orchim.

Ok, I think that covers it.

amother

Ginger

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:28 am

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

6. That's not an option she didn't keep kosher at home...or thought vegetarian was kosher enough.. but had pans she had used for non-kosher meat...

Last edited by amother on Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total

watergirl

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:28 am

I have split the dog/philosophical/other posts into a new spinoff thread. Please let OP have her own thread here Smile

. Here ya go: https://www.imamother.com/foru.....94489

Amother ginger and others, please continue in the new thread if you would like to continue. Thanks.

amother

Salmon

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:39 am

You say you are a small family in a teeny apartment being hosted for Shabbos by your SIL and her large family. Both sides of the coin here. You may not be aware as you have never done it of what is involved with mothering a large family making shabbos for them and hosting in addition.
I would work to be DKLZ and assume SIL has more than enough on her plate (pun intended Smile

I would ask in advance if I can bring the dips, parve salad etc. store-bought to her hechsher and preference. If she says they don't need or eat that then I would ask her if she has space for me to bring for myself and still bring more to share in case any of the kids do decide they want.
She may not understand what your diet is, many people do think ok so eat the salad don't take the chicken; you can either discuss her menu and ask her if it is possible for her to leave some aside before adding the chicken or just assume you will eat what you bring as you may not want to have that discussion with your SIL and just be grateful they are hosting.
I would not come with expectations and then be "grumpy" that there is not what you expected. I would bring things like nuts and the like and eat between meals.
Yes it is unfortunately theoretical now and wondering why you are thinking about this at this time.
At this time, I would make sure to call SIL and ask her how they are doing, managing, and ask if she needs anything, if there is anything you can do for her, if she wants you take a kid or two out for a bit and the like.

amother

Gray

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 8:47 am

Definitely rude of the SIL. And like, come on, vegetarian is literally the easiest thing to accommodate, unless they like never eat fruits and vegetables or something. My mother is a vegan (which is a little trickier than just vegetarian, but still not that bad) and I'm as meat and potatoes as they come, but I know how to make a great vegan meal when she comes. There should always be if not a main and a side, then two sides your guest can eat. Otherwise, don't have them if you're gonna make them go hungry.