S/o vegetarians and pets and other related thoughts

amother

Ginger

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 6:58 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Okay I guess for me it boils down to this: if a close friend were willing to accommodate my mishegoss if I didn’t own a dog but won’t because I do own a dog, and that makes me a hypocrite in their eyes, I would seriously question my friendship with that person.

But wouldn't you question yourself?
Again: you vilify the host.

Wouldn't you stop and think: perhaps my meshigoess are bit too meshigge for the world at large?
What was I demanding of this poor host?
All the efforts she made for me?

never occured to you?

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:00 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Oh yeah.

She loved complicated receipes with ingredients no-one could find, specially not in a kosher version.

She even gave me two cook books, vegetarian of course... Come to think of it, this might have been a "subtle" hint...

That's probably the reason why I spent so much time wrecking my brain!

That's, again, exactly what I mean.

They say "don't make complications for me", but in reality they expect you to go to crazy lengths to accomodate them...

They??? Really.

amother

Lilac

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:00 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

But wouldn't you question yourself?
Again: you vilify the host.

Wouldn't you stop and think: perhas my meshigoyes are bit too meshigge for the world at large?
What was I demanding of this poor host?
All the efforts she made for me?

never occured to you?

Please read my ETA above. I would not want to be friends with someone who thinks I’m a hypocrite. It’s not about the food

amother

Ginger

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:04 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Please read my ETA above. I would not want to be friends with someone who thinks I’m a hypocrite. It’s not about the food

I told her that I thought it is hypocritical to call yourself a vegetarian and own a dog.
Or perhaps I should say: As soon as you own a dog (or carnivorous pet), you're not a vegetarian, nor vegan, in my eyes... And all your efforts to be vegan or vegetarian lack credibility in my eyes.
And if meat or soup or juice grosses you out, you are just a picky eater. Nothing to do with any ethical position.

amother

Lilac

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:11 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

I told her that I thought it is hypocritical to call yourself a vegetarian and own a dog.
Or perhaps I should say: As soon as you own a dog, you're not a vegetarian, nor vegan, in my eyes... And all your efforts to be vegan or vegetarian lack credibility in my eyes.
And if meat or soup or juice grosses you out, you are just a picky eater. Nothing to do with any ethical position.

If a close friend said this to me it would be hard for me to feel warm and trusting with her. My vegetarianism like my kashrut is part of my identity and if someone tries to poke holes in it and prove to me how I’m a hypocrite why would I continue going over to this person’s house? If you told me “I can’t accommodate you because it’s too complicated for me” I would accept that, but saying “I can accommodate you but won’t because you’re a hypocrite” well okay I won’t come over anymore.
I think you’re projecting your frustrations about this difficult guest on me and cornflower and all vegetarians and our pets. I’m actually extremely easy to accommodate. When I go over to my ILs for pesach pretty much the only thing I can eat is a hard boiled egg and matzah and I eat the egg and don’t complain. And yes they make me a special egg that isn’t boiled in the chulent. And I appreciate it.

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 7:11 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Its usually militant vegans that do the policing.

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 8:00 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Because that was the situation you were addressing. I told you it was a problem to accomodate the vegetarian with an extra soup just for them because I had no extra pots and no space on the plata.
And your answer was "but I have frozen soup"

So how would frozen soup help if the problem is that you have no pot to warm it in?
Will you serve it as a popsicle?

And how would frozen soup help if there is no frozen soup?

You really badly lack empathy. And you come over as totally entitled.

Actually what you said was you did have an extra pot and room on the plata.

Quote:

The question is: will you take an extra, smaller pot, specially for the vegetarian, and make a parve soup for them?

The answer is: I did it. Although it was a problem with the number of parve pots availabe and a problem with the space on the plata available. I did it

and yes - I keep vegetarian soup in the freezer so it does't add to my time preparing for the meal. Its not a big deal. I'm not 'making the soup' at that moment.

Not sure how you are reading entitled - I eat meat.

I also host vegetarians and it doesn't involve turning myself into snack food.

amother

Ginger

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 8:12 am

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

Actually what you said was you did have an extra pot and room on the plata.

It was a real, major headache, both to find the pot (fleishig), and to find the place on the plata (hung in the air)

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

I keep vegetarian soup in the freezer so it does't add to my time preparing for the meal. Its not a big deal. I'm not 'making the soup' at that moment.

I did make the soup on the spot... of ccourse without ready-made bouillon, because it contains monosodiumglutamat..

I really, really was stupid...
I'm so easy to be taken advantage of...

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

And all are demanding nuisances - who do double-talk?

No, many were pesco-vegetarians...
some had additional allergies or perceived allergies... like nuts...

Actually my standard shabbes lunch is milchig, and I make fleishig only on special occasions... so I invite them for the milchig meals and it jives... specially when they eat fish...

I didn't say dog-owner was a demanding nuisance.
I just said that her vegetarianism combined with so many other demands, that I think, in retrospect, I was too accomodating.

So bottom line, to anwer the question "how far will you go?"
There is a limit.

Bottom line for vegetarians/vegans:
Don't be angry if the host will not accomodate you to your liking, the onus of vegetarianism is on you...
And yes, for most hosts it is extra work.(in the framework of a fleishig seuda)

amother

Ginger

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 8:23 am

Singleagain wrote:

I'm curious, what if someone is a vegetarian for health reasons? And owns a pet. Would you not try to accommodate them?

To sum up:
Now I regret having gone to such lengths for this particular person.

And the main point is: one meshigaas or allergy or health issue - OK... but more than one - not...
Several guest with different ones: not ok, or has to be evaluated...
And if there is a health issue - don't add the meshigaas on top of it...

amother

cornflower

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 8:27 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

It was a real, major headacke, both to find the pot (fleishig), and to find the place on the plata (hung in the air)

I did make the soup on the spot... of ccourse without ready-made bouillon, because it contains monosodiumglutamat..

I really, really was stupid...
I'm so easy to be taken advantage of...

the fact that you couldn't locate a pot - is on you.

If you keep a stock of soup in your freezer - you don't need to make soup on the spot. Also on you.

The fact that you are casting yourself as victim (because of a dog). Also on you.

watergirl

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 8:31 am

singleagain wrote:

I'm curious, what if someone is a vegetarian for health reasons? And owns a pet. Would you not try to accommodate them?

I know this was not directed at me, but I'll chime in here. I do accommodate when its for health reasons. I also accommodate when my guest is GF but only because "I feel so much better when I don't eat gluten" or "we are trying to be GF to see if it heals my child's autism (yes, I've heard that) etc. I have one cousin who is GF because she says she gets a stomach ache when she eats gluten. Fine, no problem! We hosted Thanksgiving this past year, she came, I made two stuffings, two pies, etc. because it was my pleasure to feed her what she could eat. I did laugh and was even a tad miffed that when she made a bar mitzvah for her son, it was treif, and she told us to bring our own kosher food. Even though the brunch was bagels/lox/cream cheese and there was a kosher place available for my small families meals. She could have accommodated us a million different ways, but for non-kosher keepers, they do not see kosher in the same way as other dietary issues. Fine.

There is another guest who says she is strictly GF, can only eat red meat, etc. and I accommodated her, even though we hardly ever buy red meat (only when its on sale). Until she took one look at the challah, then the kugel (one was GF, one was not), then the dessert and said it was worth the stomach ache. I no longer accommodate her.

I have another friend who's husband was vegan just to "lower the carbon imprint of eating meat and do his part for the planet". Fine, I accommodated him as well. He is off that now and if he goes back, I am not going to do it again.

amother

Ginger

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 8:32 am

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

Just confirming what I expressed many times:
it's all on me.
I was stupid to try and accomodate. I'm an idiot!

Petra

Wed, Jun 17 2020, 8:45 am

Humans can choose to be vegan but dogs really can’t. I’ve vacillated between vegetarianism, vegan and omnivore before. It was prompted due to health reasons but also due to the cruelty of raising and butchering livestock en masse and the immense amount of resources it takes to raise beef for example. But then I realized I have no reason then to own leather shoes or other items made with leather. And then in the opposite direction, owning “vegan” shoes, etc isn’t any better because the process of making them pollutes the environment. So now, eehh. It’s a no win situation. I’m back to normal. We only have meat on Shabbos now. It’s too expensive otherwise.
I can’t imagine catering so much to a guest though. Their quirkiness would be too much for me to handle. And allowing their dog! No way.