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Want to make Aliyah but scared
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Jun 19 2020, 6:51 pm
I was born in Israel, husband isn’t Israeli. Though I grew up most of the years in the US. I love Israel and would love to go back and raise my kids there but I’m so scared to do the big move due to financial reasons. My husband is a teacher and makes a good enough income here. I’m currently just working part time in an office, don’t make as much. We manage ok with bills and paying bills but really need to move. I was thinking israel would be the next move. I have to admit, my mom has been pressuring me to move now that she is alone (my dad passed away) even though I have a sister living over there. I’d love to go back and be with family, but it’s not as easy. My mom is also not exactly my “best friend” she criticizes and doesn’t understand things. She keeps on saying “what’s the big deal to move??” And sends me articles about olim going to israel. Very annoying! She moved to Israel because my dad was the one who did everything for her and she was able to even stay at home because he had a good job.

I started nefesh application because I’m tired of living here and know israel would be best to raise kids but I’m still stuck in the middle, going back and forth. I really am scared to move with my entire family and not finding a job! We both don’t earn as much here so in Israel it can be worse! And other things are expensive over there... like food! My
Mom said she can help pay for some things but I really do not want to rely on my mom’s money. My husband wasn’t on board before but now he is saying he will move if I want to. I know he won’t want to live near my mom so I’m not sure how to break that to her. H tells me I have to be realistic how hard it will be for us. Is there anyone I can talk to and see if we can really move? Nefesh just asked a few questions and then just sent me the application, that’s it. I need to be sure we can survive in Israel. It’s so hard feeling like it’s all on my shoulders this big decision and my mom pressuring me to move.
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Happy birthday




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 2:05 pm
Hi pm I try help advise u with honest answers
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 2:19 pm
How is your Hebrew? How about DH and the kids? That will make or break your Aliyah, in my opinion. Fluency is everything, especially in regards to work and school. The biggest mistake I ever made was not knowing enough Hebrew before I got here. Relying on Ulpan was not enough, and it's been a struggle.

There are a lot of jobs for people who can speak both English and Hebrew fluently, and some of them pay very well. Ask your N b'N coordinator for ideas about where to apply.

As for your mom, she's going to be annoying no matter where you live. You could move to Mars and she'd still be annoying. You need to work on your boundaries, and not let her guilt trip you. If you let her get in the way of making Aliyah, you'll just come to resent her for that, too.

Life is not easy here. Nobody comes to Israel because it's easy. It's REWARDING, and it's living a lifelong dream that fulfills the soul. That doesn't mean that it won't be hard work. It's still our HOME. Heart
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amother




Babypink
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 2:35 pm
Does your husband have a degree and a teaching diploma?
Do you have a degree?
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:22 pm
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
Does your husband have a degree and a teaching diploma?
Do you have a degree?

Her husband will need to convert his degree and teaching diploma in order to be hired by a Ministry of Education school. And that will probably mean taking some courses for the first year, before he can teach.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:25 pm
OP, reading your post, you sound unhappy in your current location but you don't sound like you want to live in Israel. And your husband doesn't really sound like he's fully on board, either.

Honestly, that's not a recipe for success here. Can you pinpoint what's making you unhappy in your current location? Maybe moving somewhere else within the US will be better for you?

If you do come, I suggest you choose a location that isn't right beside your mother, to make it easier to set boundaries.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:27 pm
OP, youve been posting a few threads already that you want to make aliyah (same details about the husband's job and yours and that he is not really on board)
You must REALLY want to come back.
Its understandable. Why not talk to someone at nefesh bnefesh about finances and see if it really is doable or not.
As for your husband, I think he HAS TO be on board. Its not a good idea to come, as a family, with one spouse not on board. That can (and many times does, but not always) end in disaster.
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sara_s




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:30 pm
It is very challenging to make it in Israel, on a teacher's salary and a part time office job. It's definitely not something you want to rush into.
I would totally put aside your mother's wishes and address that separately as part of your relationship with her.
Please ONLY think about what would be best for you, your husband, and your kids.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:35 pm
OP, my biggest concern is your mother's relationship with you. I'm not sure it's great for you to be too close to her, she might lean on you emotionally, in an unhealthy way. That's just the impression I get from reading over your post.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:43 pm
It's good to be worried, that's a sign you're taking it seriously. Aliyah is a big decision.

Do you know where in Israel you'd want to live, if you did live here? That's one factor in cost of living.

Another big factor is whether you'd have enough savings to get through several months to a year of having less-than-full-time work.

Another: does your husband want to live in Israel? Meaning - was the 'not on board' because he's worried about finances (but likes the idea of living in Israel other than that), or is it a more fundamental issue, like not being comfortable with the idea of moving to a new country, or not liking Israeli culture?

And: how's your Hebrew, and his?

Overall I'm not sure what to tell you. It could be either good, or bad. On the one hand, if you both found steady jobs here, IMO it's easier to get by with a so-so income in Israel than in the states (no private school tuition, for one...). And it sounds like you want to be here. OTOH, you'd be moving during what might turn into a major economic downturn, and if you don't have Hebrew skills or local experience, that could make finding good work very challenging. And if your mom is difficult, and/or your dh doesn't want to be here, that could add a lot of stress.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:50 pm
sara_s wrote:
It is very challenging to make it in Israel, on a teacher's salary and a part time office job. It's definitely not something you want to rush into.
I would totally put aside your mother's wishes and address that separately as part of your relationship with her.
Please ONLY think about what would be best for you, your husband, and your kids.

It can be done - but she will need to move to the periphery. They could live very comfortably on that salary in a place like Arad, for example. But is that what they want?
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amother




Babypink
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 4:25 pm
banana123 wrote:
It can be done - but she will need to move to the periphery. They could live very comfortably on that salary in a place like Arad, for example. But is that what they want?


Yes, a teacher's salary is the same anywhere you live, so in a cheaper area, they could be fine. A starting teacher's salary is 8000 K and a part time office job maybe 4000k - they could live modestly on 12k in many parts of Israel, depending on how many kids they have.

Yes, the dh will need to take some courses to convert his teaching diploma. Depending where his degree is from, that may be recognized automatically.

I would advise living close enough to the mother so you can visit once every week or two, but not so close that she can drop by unannounced, or ask you to come by every other day.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 4:56 pm
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
Yes, a teacher's salary is the same anywhere you live, so in a cheaper area, they could be fine. A starting teacher's salary is 8000 K and a part time office job maybe 4000k - they could live modestly on 12k in many parts of Israel, depending on how many kids they have.

Yes, the dh will need to take some courses to convert his teaching diploma. Depending where his degree is from, that may be recognized automatically.

I would advise living close enough to the mother so you can visit once every week or two, but not so close that she can drop by unannounced, or ask you to come by every other day.

A starting teacher's salary is NOT 8000k. It is closer to 6000k. Part-time office job I think you are right.

They would be living on 10,000k unless her husband has - and converts - a master's degree, and they count his experience abroad as vetek here.

Even if his teaching degree is recognized he will still need to do a teudat hora'a, as far as I know.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 5:07 pm
Also a lot of teachers coming in from places like the US leave the classroom after a few years. There's no comparison teaching Israeli kids and teaching relatively well-mannered kids abroad.

Israeli classrooms can be brutal.

Just want to give fair warning.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 5:11 pm
banana123 wrote:
A starting teacher's salary is NOT 8000k. It is closer to 6000k. Part-time office job I think you are right.

They would be living on 10,000k unless her husband has - and converts - a master's degree, and they count his experience abroad as vetek here.

Even if his teaching degree is recognized he will still need to do a teudat hora'a, as far as I know.


A starting teaching salary for someone with a BA and a teaching diploma is 8000 K in high schools. They raised the salaries a few years ago. In elementary it may be less.

He would get paid more if he taught bagrut classes or was a homeroom teacher or other positions.

He would also get paid more if they recognized his years teaching abroad for vetek purposes. And of course, he would get paid more with each year.

If he has a master's degree, he would also get more. But 8k is the base salary in high schools now.

I don't think he would need to do a full teudat hora'a. They usually have some sort of program for those with teaching degrees. But he'd have to look into it.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 5:13 pm
banana123 wrote:
Also a lot of teachers coming in from places like the US leave the classroom after a few years. There's no comparison teaching Israeli kids and teaching relatively well-mannered kids abroad.

Israeli classrooms can be brutal.

Just want to give fair warning.


Agreed. Always best, if possible, to choose a small school with small classes. You get paid the same if you are teaching 40 kids a class or 15 kids a class.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 5:18 pm
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
A starting teaching salary for someone with a BA and a teaching diploma is 8000 K in high schools. They raised the salaries a few years ago. In elementary it may be less.

He would get paid more if he taught bagrut classes or was a homeroom teacher or other positions.

He would also get paid more if they recognized his years teaching abroad for vetek purposes. And of course, he would get paid more with each year.

If he has a master's degree, he would also get more. But 8k is the base salary in high schools now.

I don't think he would need to do a full teudat hora'a. They usually have some sort of program for those with teaching degrees. But he'd have to look into it.

Really? From what I've seen, even teaching bagrut, with Oz Letmura and a bonus for the subject, you don't earn 8000 until at least a few years in.

And earning more each year depends on darga, not just vetek - you need to take courses each year to move up each darga.

If you have a source for your claim I'd love to see it. I know they were talking about it....but a lot of talk doesn't actually end up happening.

Aside from this, I want to note that in the areas where this would be relevant, it's not easy to find a full-time position in a high school. Where it is possible, it requires working in two or more schools.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 5:23 pm
banana123 wrote:
Really? From what I've seen, even teaching bagrut, with Oz Letmura and a bonus for the subject, you don't earn 8000 until at least a few years in.

And earning more each year depends on darga, not just vetek - you need to take courses each year to move up each darga.

If you have a source for your claim I'd love to see it.


I'm a teacher. I earn a lot more than that, but I've been teaching for years.

In any case, I know what the new teachers earn, and a quick google shows I'm right. (Note - this is bruto; some will be taken off for taxes, but not much, as it's not a high salary).

על פי ההסכם שהושג, בראשונה יגיע שכרם של מורים מתחילים בתיכון ל-8,300 שקל – גבוה יותר מההערכות המוקדמות במהלך המשא ומתן. זאת בעוד שכרם של מורים בעלי תואר שני יסתכם בכ-8,800 שקל (ברוטו) – לא כולל את תוספות השכר המיוחדות שמורים מקבלים, כדבר שבשגרה, תחת סעיפים שונים במשכורתם.

In other places, it says 8k is starting salary, not 8300. But that's the vicinity.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 5:26 pm
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
I'm a teacher. I earn a lot more than that, but I've been teaching for years.

In any case, I know what the new teachers earn, and a quick google shows I'm right. (Note - this is bruto; some will be taken off for taxes, but not much, as it's not a high salary).

על פי ההסכם שהושג, בראשונה יגיע שכרם של מורים מתחילים בתיכון ל-8,300 שקל – גבוה יותר מההערכות המוקדמות במהלך המשא ומתן. זאת בעוד שכרם של מורים בעלי תואר שני יסתכם בכ-8,800 שקל (ברוטו) – לא כולל את תוספות השכר המיוחדות שמורים מקבלים, כדבר שבשגרה, תחת סעיפים שונים במשכורתם.

In other places, it says 8k is starting salary, not 8300. But that's the vicinity.

Yes, but do you have any idea how many agreements are made but don't go into effect for years?

OP needs to know what actually shows up in the tlush, not what agreements were made but might not have gone into effect yet.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post  Sat, Jun 20 2020, 5:51 pm
banana123 wrote:
Yes, but do you have any idea how many agreements are made but don't go into effect for years?

OP needs to know what actually shows up in the tlush, not what agreements were made but might not have gone into effect yet.


It went into effect right away.

חוזרים ללמד. עיצומי ארגון המורים העל-יסודיים הסתיימו אחרי חמישה שבועות עם חתימתו של הסכם שכר חדש שבמסגרתו נקבע שכר התחלתי של 8,000 שקלים למורה. במסגרת ההסכם שנחתם אמש (יום ב'), יקבלו המורים הוותיקים תוספות שכר כבר מהחודש הבא.

המורים הוותיקים יקבלו במסגרת ההסכם מענק חתימה של 1,000 שקלים ותוספת שכר קבועה של 120 שקלים בכל חודש ב-4 השנים הקרובות. תקרת גמולי ההשתלמות תעלה מ-18% ל-19%. שכר היועצים והמנהלים יעלה גם כן במסגרת ההסכמים.


עיקרי ההסכם:
השכר למורה מתחיל יעמוד על 8,000 שקלים החל מ-1 בספטמבר 2018.
לכל עובדי ההוראה עליהם יחול ההסכם הקיבוצי תשולם תוספת של 480 שקלים, שיבוצע על פני ארבע שנים.
תקרת גמולי ההשתלמות לעובדי ההוראה המועסקים לפי תנאי רפורמת "עוז לתמורה" תועלה ל-19 החל מ-1 בספטמבר 2019.
מורים יקבלו מעתה תוספת שכר גם על תפקידים נוספים שיעשו בבית הספר.
גמול ייעוץ יוגדל ב-3%, בשתי פעימות: 2% החל מ-1 בינואר 2020 ו-1% מ-1 בינואר 2021.
לכלל עובדי ההוראה ישולם מענק חד פעמי בסך 1,000 שקלים.
ארגון המורים התחייב לשקט תעשייתי בכל העניינים המוסדרים בהסכם עד ל-28 בפברואר 2022.
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