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Want to make Aliyah but scared
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jul 06 2020, 4:46 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
He is 7 years old, going to 3rd grade.
I’m pretty sure israel won’t have the therapy he needs because even for here it was very hard for me to find him the right therapy. I ended up paying thousands of dollars for a special selective mutism camp... it was a one week intensive camp for him and also the parents were trained. I met parents that came from different countries just for that summer camp! A few were from the U.K., it is a therapy that started over here so I doubt israel has that. However, it was just one week and since then, I’ve been working with his teachers with all that I’ve learned. He didn’t speak to anyone at school for 2 years... until he started first grade (after the intensive therapy).
He isn’t getting that therapy anymore, he is getting services from the district, which I had to train his counselor as well. Not too many people know how to handle it.

Of course there are those people that I know (like my mom) who thinks he will overcome it alone and he’ll do great in israel because he already speaks Hebrew. But I know it’s not a language issue.

Anyway, even if we end up not going to Israel, we have to move and he will have to go to a new school one day and then I’ll have to work with a new school.
But that would still be in the language that he learns in now.
To learn hebrew and not understand it (even if you speak it to him now, dont know if you do) its not the same as learning in that language in school.
I think this would be anxiety times a million for a kid with selective mutism.

As I said, I worked in a gan with a kid with this. I could try to find out who helped the child, if you would like. That child is now either going in to 8th grade (Im hoping). He was going in to first grade back then.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Jul 06 2020, 4:50 pm
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
Im so sorry Op you are really in a tough spot.

As I said I am a real proponent of aliyah and think its the best place on Earth.

That said, between your husband and your child with selective mutism (not blaming anyone for anything just sending mega hugs) I wonder if its possible you are conflating your understandable wish to live in E"Y with your issues with your mother and more....and I would take her out of the picture and tell her while you fully understand you don't want her to weigh in on it anymore as it is up to you and your husband.

While I understand the time line and urgency, decisions are best made in the present moment based on reality as it is now.

I know what its like when contemplating a move and then thinking so we will just do the "big" move. But sometimes the path is a bit more detoured than that.

I feel for you. Take some quiet time close your eyes and picture and feel what the choices might be like. I would have a real hesitation taking a child with an issue like selective mutism to a new country unless I was assured they had some stellar program and even then I would proceed with much caution. Big changes for any kid.

Hatzlocha

Thanks for your support. I will also ask his therapist for her opinion about moving to a different country and what to expect with a kid with SM.

There are people (sorry, again, like my mom) who think that selective mutism isn't a big issue. Maybe I also had it as a child and never knew it? I know it is genetic. I was always the quiet child in school and of course the teachers didn't pay much attention to me. I didn't have a good experience at the religious school in Israel. Then one day my parents moved to a different city and I suddenly did soooo much better at the public school in Israel. I know that schools in Israel also have larger class sizes, and that can be an issue with kids with selective mutism, I think they do better at small groups. But there are those good schools out there in Israel, I just have to find.

I'm thinking Israel would be the best move for my kids, but now I'm wondering, will I ruin it for my child with the selective mutism?

I know if I tell my mom that we decided not to move, she'll make me feel guilty. Not to mention, before my dad died, he actually said he regrets that he brought me to the US instead of staying in Israel. I know he really wanted me to come back as well. So there will always be that guilt feeling.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post  Mon, Jul 06 2020, 4:56 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks for your support. I will also ask his therapist for her opinion about moving to a different country and what to expect with a kid with SM.

There are people (sorry, again, like my mom) who think that selective mutism isn't a big issue. Maybe I also had it as a child and never knew it? I know it is genetic. I was always the quiet child in school and of course the teachers didn't pay much attention to me. I didn't have a good experience at the religious school in Israel. Then one day my parents moved to a different city and I suddenly did soooo much better at the public school in Israel. I know that schools in Israel also have larger class sizes, and that can be an issue with kids with selective mutism, I think they do better at small groups. But there are those good schools out there in Israel, I just have to find.

I'm thinking Israel would be the best move for my kids, but now I'm wondering, will I ruin it for my child with the selective mutism?

I know if I tell my mom that we decided not to move, she'll make me feel guilty. Not to mention, before my dad died, he actually said he regrets that he brought me to the US instead of staying in Israel. I know he really wanted me to come back as well. So there will always be that guilt feeling.

Asking her advice is a great idea.

Your mother isn't a professional, she evidently doesn't understand what SM is. That's her problem, not yours, and it doesn't matter why she thinks that way. If she can't be there to support you and your kid, she's irrelevant to the discussion. And, it doesn't matter if you had it as a kid, what matters is that you are helping your child.

Asking professionals who know your children personally (and you can ask more than one per child, and probably should) means you'll know what the best move is and if you do make aliya you can be confident that you're not ruining things for your children.

You know your mom will guilt you. But don't let her. Guilt means you know you did something wrong. Doing what is best for yourself, your husband, and your kids, is not doing anything wrong. It is doing everything RIGHT. And anyone who tries to make you feel bad about that, they should feel guilty for their selfishness. Your dad wanted you to come back, but your dad also wanted to see you happily married and see your kids succeeding. Your dad would not have wanted you to sacrifice your child's well-being in order to make aliya, would he? Please don't feel guilty, no matter what your mom says. Especially since she seems the type that if you don't send her the exact right gift or come exactly at the right time before Shabbos, it won't matter what else you did, how much you spent on the gift or how much food you cooked and how much you helped her clean her house for Shabbos - all that will matter is what you didn't do right. That kind of person is impossible to please, so feeling guilty is pointless. Don't torture yourself over this. Heart
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amother




Blonde
 

Post  Mon, Jul 06 2020, 5:09 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks for your support. I will also ask his therapist for her opinion about moving to a different country and what to expect with a kid with SM.

There are people (sorry, again, like my mom) who think that selective mutism isn't a big issue. Maybe I also had it as a child and never knew it? I know it is genetic. I was always the quiet child in school and of course the teachers didn't pay much attention to me. I didn't have a good experience at the religious school in Israel. Then one day my parents moved to a different city and I suddenly did soooo much better at the public school in Israel. I know that schools in Israel also have larger class sizes, and that can be an issue with kids with selective mutism, I think they do better at small groups. But there are those good schools out there in Israel, I just have to find.

I'm thinking Israel would be the best move for my kids, but now I'm wondering, will I ruin it for my child with the selective mutism?

I know if I tell my mom that we decided not to move, she'll make me feel guilty. Not to mention, before my dad died, he actually said he regrets that he brought me to the US instead of staying in Israel. I know he really wanted me to come back as well. So there will always be that guilt feeling.


Remind me why it's good for your children to move in Israel?
Because they can play outside .

Op ,my dear op .
You have a dream since you're young that you will go back to Israel
You have the big big pression of your (not very healthy) mother
So you are persuading yourself and your poor dh that is better to move in Israel.If anyway we should move let's make alya...
Op .
Move on in your mind!!!
Forget about going back to Israel!
Your life is in America and it's very very very good for all of you their!!
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Jul 06 2020, 5:10 pm
If I tell her we won't move, she'll make me feel like one who doesn't love or care about Israel... but she doesn't think that there are american zionists out there. For her, if people move to Israel, that's when they love Israel. If I don't move, I'm like a nazi (sorry for the exaggeration) but really she makes it seem like a really bad thing.
She even tells me I'll be blessed if I move to Israel and I'll have a girl (I have all boys).
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Mon, Jul 06 2020, 5:12 pm
I think Op that you have to sort through a lot for yourself first before making any big decisions for your family. Your parents, your experiences, your father's passing, and so much.
Would you consider finding a good kind therapist who is frum or Israeli ideally even both someone who can really understand these issues as well as the personal and emotional? And help you set healthy boundaries?
Its a process that does not have to be lengthy and it can really help you get to a place of clarity which you need to maximize success for these big decisions.
You really need to clarify and prioritize. Were you to move it could be a huge success or you could be resentful and blame your mom's perceived guilt/pressure or it could hurt your marriage or kids chas v shalom. You do not want to make such a big decision on a roulette wheel. And you want to make the best decision from the most grounded place to maximize for success.
hugs and hatzlocha

sometimes when we are scared it is not something to push past but rather there for a good reason
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amother




Blonde
 

Post  Mon, Jul 06 2020, 5:56 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
If I tell her we won't move, she'll make me feel like one who doesn't love or care about Israel... but she doesn't think that there are american zionists out there. For her, if people move to Israel, that's when they love Israel. If I don't move, I'm like a nazi (sorry for the exaggeration) but really she makes it seem like a really bad thing.
She even tells me I'll be blessed if I move to Israel and I'll have a girl (I have all boys).



Your mother is just saying a lot of non sense!
1)Yes you prefer your children from Israel
2)If someone is a Nazi it's not you!!
3) she is not a navi so forget about the girl..

Your mother is very destructive!!!
Stay in America .Far away from her. keep taking care of your children.Stay close to your dh
And start a therapy ! your mother is killing you!!!
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Tue, Jul 07 2020, 1:22 am
I think that you're considering aliyah for all the wrong reasons. I live in Israel and love it here, but it doesn't sound like the best place for you to be at this stage in your life.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post  Tue, Jul 07 2020, 2:38 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
If I tell her we won't move, she'll make me feel like one who doesn't love or care about Israel... but she doesn't think that there are american zionists out there. For her, if people move to Israel, that's when they love Israel. If I don't move, I'm like a nazi (sorry for the exaggeration) but really she makes it seem like a really bad thing.
She even tells me I'll be blessed if I move to Israel and I'll have a girl (I have all boys).

No one can make you feel that way but yourself. Don't give her the ability to dictate your feelings.

If you decide aliya isn't the best thing for your family, that doesn't mean you don't love Israel or care about Israel. It means you have your priorities straight.

There are American Zionists. She doesn't have to believe it but they exist. Look, it was American Zionists who paid for our weapons so that we could fight the War of Independence. And there are so many other examples. If someone doesn't believe that masks stop coronavirus carriers from spreading cough and sneeze droplets, does that mean that masks don't catch the droplets? Of course not. If someone doesn't believe that smoking impairs fertility, does that mean that smoking doesn't impair fertility? Of course not. A person can believe what s/he wants but that doesn't change any facts on the ground. And the same goes here. There are American Zionists, they exist, you can love Israel and care for Israel while not living in Israel. Those are facts. A person can believe or disbelieve but the facts don't change based on a person's belief.

If you don't move then that must be because you decided moving isn't the right thing for you. Ignore anyone who calls you names.

And is she a navi? A tzaddik? How can she know that you'll have a girl? Is she going to pay for PGD to ensure you have a girl next time?

OP, your mother has problems. Please let them remain HER problems. Do what's best for you, your husband, and your kids. Heart
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amother




Blonde
 

Post  Tue, Jul 07 2020, 3:35 pm
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
No one can make you feel that way but yourself. Don't give her the ability to dictate your feelings.

If you decide aliya isn't the best thing for your family, that doesn't mean you don't love Israel or care about Israel. It means you have your priorities straight.

There are American Zionists. She doesn't have to believe it but they exist. Look, it was American Zionists who paid for our weapons so that we could fight the War of Independence. And there are so many other examples. If someone doesn't believe that masks stop coronavirus carriers from spreading cough and sneeze droplets, does that mean that masks don't catch the droplets? Of course not. If someone doesn't believe that smoking impairs fertility, does that mean that smoking doesn't impair fertility? Of course not. A person can believe what s/he wants but that doesn't change any facts on the ground. And the same goes here. There are American Zionists, they exist, you can love Israel and care for Israel while not living in Israel. Those are facts. A person can believe or disbelieve but the facts don't change based on a person's belief.

If you don't move then that must be because you decided moving isn't the right thing for you. Ignore anyone who calls you names.

And is she a navi? A tzaddik? How can she know that you'll have a girl? Is she going to pay for PGD to ensure you have a girl next time?

OP, your mother has problems. Please let them remain HER problems. Do what's best for you, your husband, and your kids. Heart


This👍
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Jul 07 2020, 4:41 pm
Thank you for all the advice and support. I definitely need to take a step back and not make any decisions yet.

I have to say, I haven’t spoken to my mom and got any emailed for just 3 days (she tried calling once) and I’m feeling great (taking a “vacation” from her).

My mom reads the news a lot. There are articles now that Israel is expecting a massive number of olim because of the virus. Which is interesting because even though there were less cases in Israel, of course less people, I don’t think they’ve done a great job by opening up schools so early.
I can understand some want to leave this country because of the uncertainty of who’d lead this country, no one really great. And due to the increase in antisemits but we have it all over, I’m not denying it and I hope it won’t get worse, I can’t imagine the US becoming like Europe during hitler time. There will always be an issue with racism, if you look at the US history. So yea, I understand why some would leave this country and appreciate our little country, but I’m also aware there are issues in Israel.
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Tue, Jul 07 2020, 5:34 pm
Op your mother is simply understandably concerned for you and giving over her opinion.

You can say thank you and move on. Or just tell her you cant discuss it further with her as its between you and your husband.

hatzlocha
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 07 2020, 5:49 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you for all the advice and support. I definitely need to take a step back and not make any decisions yet.

I have to say, I haven’t spoken to my mom and got any emailed for just 3 days (she tried calling once) and I’m feeling great (taking a “vacation” from her).

My mom reads the news a lot. There are articles now that Israel is expecting a massive number of olim because of the virus. Which is interesting because even though there were less cases in Israel, of course less people, I don’t think they’ve done a great job by opening up schools so early.
I can understand some want to leave this country because of the uncertainty of who’d lead this country, no one really great. And due to the increase in antisemits but we have it all over, I’m not denying it and I hope it won’t get worse, I can’t imagine the US becoming like Europe during hitler time. There will always be an issue with racism, if you look at the US history. So yea, I understand why some would leave this country and appreciate our little country, but I’m also aware there are issues in Israel.
OP, no country is going to be perfect, no matter what. Just remember that. Even Israel. If you do end up coming here, at any time, it also wont be how you remember it as a single girl growing up here.
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