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Was my husband wrong I'm doubting if we did the right thing
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:48 am
My husband took out me and our teen boys and younger child a few weeks ago and I'm still stuck about it.
We traveled an hour away. while we arrived we saw lots of non jews, we were the only yidden. I was debating if we are doing the right thing for taking our teen boys to a place where its crowded with non Jews, which we didn't know before how the place will look . (It wasn't beach type of place) but the way summer looks like ppl tanning. I did not notice any very naked women so much tho, but it was crowded enough to remind just once to my kids to watch their eyes .
When we were ready to leave the car when arriving , my 16 year old son decided he's got no patience to come out with us , he rather stay in the car or come next to the car to spend time with his friend on the phone. Now the place was huge. I didn't know how long it will take for us untill were going to be back, and this son does not wanna join with us . I was very nervous to leave my son by himself @ the parking lot without any supervision. I started saying that I think we should turn back home if ds is not coming out with us, the rest of my kids were exhausted from travel and some started crying and beg to stay. we tried to convince this son but to no availability he wanted to give in. My dh decided to leave my ds behind, he claimed it's not fair for the other kids if we went straight back home. So I just followed my dh advice. Place was beautiful. We were spending almost 2 hours abserving everything just we were so so far away from where my ds stayed @ the car. I just couldn't enjoy myself fully while I knew my 16 year old is by himself @ the parking lot and who knows what he is being exposed to with all the preitzez around.

Now I'm asking opinions what you would have done? Would you just leave it up to your husband, would you very firmly just turn around and say were going home, was my husband being wise for leaving him and not care if he stayed? I can just say my opinion here: I think we should've made a U turn and take the kids a different time. I just saw how easy my dh left him stay that I said nothing but I was doubting the entire time and still am if it's ok or safe that we left him standing 2 hours @ the car . (Not that I felt bad for ds as he chose this , just I felt it was our responsibility and for his safety.) My ds was ok with that , he chose to stay , we did beg him to come join since he had the choice to stay home and he made up his decision to come along with us, only when we arrived he decided not to . I'm fearful if he wasnt impacted or seeing things he shouldn't. If he joined us , then I dont look @ it the same being exposed cause he would've been busy with us. Just since he stood 2 hours in one circle seeing people coming and going , I'm not calm about it. Could very much be that he was busy with his own thing talking to friends on the phone, I dont know .
I still feel that my dh should've been firmer and not have left my ds behind all by himself and just should've take us back home , and explain to the kids why we had to do so . My dh was ok (not that he was ok, just he saw my ds was being stubborn about it) leaving him as he chose that, and took us
As no problem and seemed very calm while I had so many questions but kept QUIET. I had my other kids and didnt wanna ruin their trip.

YOUR THOUGHTS???
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amother




Red
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:53 am
Are you a very anxious person. That's how you come across in your post.

I definitely would have done what your husband did. As long as the car was cool enough and especially since he had a phone to call you.

At 16 he is in charge of his ruchnius. You could have said something though "I'm concerned about the pritzus here" that's it.
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amother




Turquoise
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:56 am
A 16 year old can spend 2 hours on his own, especially if he has a phone in case of emergency. It's nice when the whole.family hangs out together, but sometimes young adults just need their space.

If you really don't trust your son on his own for two hours, I think maybe there's more going on here than I understand from your post.
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ohmygosh




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 8:57 am
I think your DH made the right decision. Your other kids had been in the car for a while and needed to get out. It would have been unfair to turn around and make them stay in the car for another long while. Your DS is 16. He's a big boy. He was staying in the car, not running around my himself.

I think you need to leave it be. You're overthinking.
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fish




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 9:00 am
I would have forced the 16 year old to come.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 9:13 am
That's why I came up to ask opinions since he is my oldest and I dont know what the right way is to handle this age.

We did force him very much and he still hasnt changed his mind . We had the other exhausted kids , how long could we spend begging.
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amother




Smokey
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 9:24 am
Is your ds a good kid?
The deed was done. Don’t obsess, but do discuss with dh and then ds and agree on parameters and expectations.
Show a united front with dh. And trust your chinuch.
Welcome to teenworld.
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amother




Slateblue
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 9:32 am
How would it be fair to your other kids to have turned around and gone home? Your teen wouldn’t have cared, so the only people being punished are your other kids. Also imo that would have been the worst thing you could have done- showing your teen that he can call the shots for the whole family. In the future, I would make sure that you were clear with him before you set out on the trip, that he can stay home if he’s not going to participate with the family activities. It’s hard for teens to value family time with little siblings.

** your husband was absolutely right in making the call to leave him at the car
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amother




cornflower
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 9:34 am
You didn't force - once you get into a power struggle and back down you come of as weak.
Next time just avoid the whole "you must, if you don't...."

With teens you never get into power struggles - especially if you aren't able to enforce it.
And I agree with dh that it isn't fair to other kids just because ds had attitude to turn around an go home.

Next time you guys go on an outing tell ds he can't come along because last time he decided to change his mind last minute, and it was unpleasant for everyone. Don't give in to begging. After that you let him prove he can be trusted and come on outings.

As for pritzus - his shmiras eynayim is his nisayon. you can do your best to protect him and make it easier at at the end of the day he will be in such situations and learn how to deal with them. It is normal for him to struggle at 16 - as he gets older he will get better at it if you don't turn it into an unhealthy obsession about it.
Again don't take him to a beach or give him an unfiltered phone, but he will see women in shorts/tank top, billboards ect....And the truth is he can struggle with shmiras eynayim with the most tznuis women to - he's a 16 year old boy with raging hormones!
Stop trying to police him - take your husbands lead on this one - he was once a 16 year old boy, and is probably better equipped to deal with it.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 9:46 am
I think what your husband decided was the best possible compromise in this tricky situation, with most persons being satisfied and least persons being unsatisfied...

I think a 16 year old can be left alone, at 16, I let children go out alone, stay home alone, do things alone, even travel alone... When I go to amusement park kinds of settings, I allow children to do their own thing around age 10-12 (depending on the size of the park, whether they know it or not), and fix a meeting point & hour with them (also for smaller children, in case they get lost)... And I would stay with the smaller children and would do the "boring stuff" with them... This way, I have the attention to supervise the small ones, and the bigger ones can have a good time... If the bigger ones want to stay with me, that's fine to, but not an obligation...

so the car might not be the most comfortable place, and I would feel sorry about that for him, but if he says that is the best solution for him, I would listen to him and accept what he wants.

Forcing the 16-year old along, in a situation where you yourself are not really comfortable for him being there, would not seem fair in my view.

Going home and depriving the smaller children would not seem fair either.

In general, it is a good idea to think about splitting up when different members of the family express different whishes. That's better than forcing them to stay together, and everyone is unhappy...
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 10:24 am
Ok , I feel much better now having a clearer picture of how the right way should look. Seems like more people voted the same so I guess dh was right . . Sometimes it's just good to hear opinions while doubting. Thanks for making me feel better tho.
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amother




Brown
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 10:33 am
My 16 year old son would do the same thing.

I would be anxious also and depending on what we saw there I would probably stay with the younger kids and my husband would probably take him back home.

What I actually do in first place is.... that I don't get into situations like these.
I would do more research before going out on to an excursion.

Keep in mind that any public place is going to have pritzos when the weather is above 65 degrees.
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CiCi




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 10:39 am
Just realize when asking an hashkafic/chinuch question like this on this forum, that there are many women here who are bringing up their children in different ways than you may want to bring up yours. Such a question should be asked from your dass Torah or women who are in your circles.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 10:54 am
CiCi wrote:
Just realize when asking an hashkafic/chinuch question like this on this forum, that there are many women here who are bringing up their children in different ways than you may want to bring up yours. Such a question should be asked from your dass Torah or women who are in your circles.


Are you trying to throw shade on the answers that were given here?
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amother




Brown
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 10:59 am
Ora in town wrote:
Are you trying to throw shade on the answers that were given here?


It's a normal part of a mature discussion.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 11:25 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
It's a normal part of a mature discussion.

Throwing shade?
Normal part of respectful discussion?
Strange definition of "mature"...
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 11:25 am
CiCi wrote:
Just realize when asking an hashkafic/chinuch question like this on this forum, that there are many women here who are bringing up their children in different ways than you may want to bring up yours. Such a question should be asked from your dass Torah or women who are in your circles.
OP this very much. If you are left or more to the right answers to your question would be different...
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amother




Blue
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 11:30 am
Personally, I don't have a DS but I have DD16. I would have said you chose to come and had the option to stay home, now you get out of the car, put a smile on your face and join us. His option was to stay home or come, he chose to come. Now he is here. Only you know whether you could/should have made him participate with the family. I B"H have easy teens so I can't begin to understand the power struggle which may have endured. I definitely would not have made the rest of the family go home and suffering as that would have given him control over the entire family.
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asmileaday




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 11:39 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
My 16 year old son would do the same thing.

I would be anxious also and depending on what we saw there I would probably stay with the younger kids and my husband would probably take him back home.

What I actually do in first place is.... that I don't get into situations like these.
I would do more research before going out on to an excursion.

Keep in mind that any public place is going to have pritzos when the weather is above 65 degrees.


Op said the place was an hour drive from home. I don't think it's fair to have dh drive an extra 2 hours just to take the 16 yr old home.
Teens need to be taught that the world doesn't revolve around them. You want to go home? Sure, Ta will drive an hour to take you home and an hour back to pick up the rest of the family.
No it doesn't work that way. The sooner they learn this, the better. He made the decision to come along, he deals with the "consequences" whether it's staying alone next to the car or joining the family.
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amother




Salmon
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 11:42 am
I wouldve done what your husband did as well.
He's 16, he's safe to be in the car, especially he has a phone to call in case of emergency.
Leave the car on, so it doesn't get overheated but take the car keys with you so he doesn't decide to try to come pick you up.
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