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Was my husband wrong I'm doubting if we did the right thing
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 7:06 pm
In my right wing bubble, my husband would not go to a place that may be inappropriate for teen boys as far as underdressed women. If it's not a modest place, both kids and men do not go.
I have a 16 year old that I trust very much and so I give him space to make his own decisions. He does not however have a smartphone only a talk and text, because I do not allow it. Not because I don't trust him but because I don't trust the world out there.
It doesn't seem healthy for a teen to be on a phone for 2 hours straight. So I would insist he come with us and speak to the friend later.
If he is being stubborn I would leave him there to spend the time alone but afterwards I would think double triple hard as to the effect a phone is having on his life. And how to avoid the situation next time.
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 7:08 pm
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
Who cares what the literal translation is? The word pritzus is used to mean immodesty/untzniusdig.

Well... don't know... maybe the afternoon strollers there might feel slightly offended when compared to ladies of the oldest profession in the world...
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 7:12 pm
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
For Pritzah the translation I got is breakthrough.


For Pritzos the translation I got is licentiousness.

It's written פרוצה
The I is the yiddish pronounciation, like Purim -> Pirim...
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 7:12 pm
Ora in town wrote:
Well... don't know... maybe the afternoon strollers there might feel slightly offended when compared to ladies of the oldest profession in the world...


They might. But this is a situation where o e can safely say that what they don't know doesn't hurt them.
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amother




Brown
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 7:14 pm
Ora in town wrote:
Well... don't know... maybe the afternoon strollers there might feel slightly offended when compared to ladies of the oldest profession in the world...


Its either you're part of the community and you understand that it doesnt mean strollers (duh!) or you don't live in the community so you don't hear it.

So how would someone get offended? Banging head

Are you playing dumb or are you really curious?
Whatever
Wth why did I even bother
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 7:19 pm
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
Its either you're part of the community and you understand that it doesnt mean strollers (duh!) or you don't live in the community so you don't hear it.

So how would someone get offended? Banging head

Are you playing dumb or are you really curious?
Whatever
Wth why did I even bother

I am really dumb, not playing...
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CiCi




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 7:24 pm
Pritzah, although the literal translation is pr0stitude, it is also used for an immodest women just as [gentile] is used for non-Jew even though literally it means "a nation"...The point is that if the OP was so uncomfortable with her son being around such scantily clad women she had good reason to be worried, whether some of the women were actual harlots or not is irrelevant in this case.

IMO the son didnt want to walk in between such crowds and I think that is why he chose not to join the family.
To begin with I wouldn't go to a place knowing that there may be a large crowd of indecently dressed women, but if our family would find ourselves in such a situation for whatever reason, we would not come out of the car and would search for more appropriate place to go to.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sun, Jun 21 2020, 11:43 pm
Just to clarify. We did not expect the place to look so much going on . We wouldnt have chose that place if we knew . Just after an hour of travel and restless younger kids it was hard to just turn around . The place was very big and spread out . We were able to find a quieter spot to chill together. I was just worried that my ds stayed for 2 hours in one spot . I wasnt with him (maybe I should've stayed?) Just I would never handle to wait in the heat like that and it would show my ds that he overpowered me.
It was a hard situation to be in . IT IS TOUGH ! In the summer we can never be certain with anything out there ....
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Mon, Jun 22 2020, 3:06 am
We had a situation last summer where my husband and I took our kids on a water hike, and after the halfway mark, a group of girls stripped down to bikinis. My husband casually took the boys (ages 12 and 10) back to the beginning of the hike with promises of ice cream, and I went on with the girls, since we were there with cousins of ours who are less sensitive to such things, and if we all left it would have been jarring and rude. At the time, I bit back my annoyance--its hard to be the frummies!--but what is seen cannot be unseen, and it was in retrospect the best thing to do.

OP, it sounds like your son is a sensitive neshama, and didn't want to mix with pritzus. Kol hakavod to him!
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amother




Linen
 

Post  Mon, Jun 22 2020, 5:01 am
fish wrote:
I would have forced the 16 year old to come.

And you would have been wrong.

My mother tried to force me to come on family outings that I preferred to skip, when I was that age. (Sometimes I did acquiesce, but then asked to stay in the car.)

There was no reason to. I can take care of myself. I watch her younger children (my siblings). I go to the store by myself and am old enough to drive and there's no reason I can't be left at home or in the car when everyone else is on an outing.

It's not like an infant or toddler or young child who can't be left in the car because they might overheat. At 16 a person is old enough to DRIVE the car, for sure there's no issue in leaving him in it while you go to the beach. If he has an issue you have cell phones, right? He can tell you that he's going to the gas station to buy a drink and use the bathroom, or going to a nearby store to buy something to eat.

Forcing a child to join an outing at that age is just controlling and manipulative. The only way you'd succeed is if you guilted him into it.
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amother




Linen
 

Post  Mon, Jun 22 2020, 5:06 am
asmileaday wrote:
Agree. I don't think it's a matter of hashkafa here.
This is a matter of teaching a teen to take responsibility for his decisions and not have everyone around him scrambling to accommodate his change of heart.

Was it a change of heart or did he say he didn't want to go from the beginning and only acquiesce when his parents pressured him?
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amother




White
 

Post  Mon, Jun 22 2020, 7:18 am
CICI and others make good points.
Your husband made a judgement call that made sense in the moment best for the whole family.
Best responses are from peers who understand the hashkafa with which you are raising your family.
Warmer temperatures generally mean many may be dressed immodestly.
You can use this incident to discuss with your husband different scenarios you may face with your first teenager and proactively how best to handle. Helps if you have a mentor and/or friend(s) with kids in your circles a bit older. No need to reinvent the wheel its can be a steep learning curve especially with your oldest.
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CiCi




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 22 2020, 8:34 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Just to clarify. We did not expect the place to look so much going on . We wouldnt have chose that place if we knew . Just after an hour of travel and restless younger kids it was hard to just turn around . The place was very big and spread out . We were able to find a quieter spot to chill together. I was just worried that my ds stayed for 2 hours in one spot . I wasnt with him (maybe I should've stayed?) Just I would never handle to wait in the heat like that and it would show my ds that he overpowered me.
It was a hard situation to be in . IT IS TOUGH ! In the summer we can never be certain with anything out there ....


I dont know your son, but to me it seemed like he wanted to avoid the crowds, so he likely tried to avoid looking at inappropriate things while staying near the car and speaking to his friends on the phone. It would've been impossible to avoid seeing stuff he shouldn't had he had to walk to the site where you all chilled. So if you didnt drive away, this is likely the next best option, although I can understand how worried you were with him being by himself.

But at this point theres no reason to still feel bad over this incident. We are human and all did stuff that we regret, in chinuch and otherwise, but regret is only good for learning what we would do in such a situation next time and then it's time to move on. In this case you know to avoid this place in summer months and at this point theres no reason to beat yourself up over this more than you already did. I totally get you though because I also struggle with this too, oftentimes thinking I should've done this or that and I have to consciously get myself out of that frame of mind...If we cant change things what's the point of obsessing about it?

With such a sensitive mother like you who genuinely cares about your son's yirah shomayim, I believe you will see much Yiddish nachos from your son.
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amother




Red
 

Post  Mon, Jun 22 2020, 10:13 am
CiCi wrote:
I dont know your son, but to me it seemed like he wanted to avoid the crowds, so he likely tried to avoid looking at inappropriate things while staying near the car and speaking to his friends on the phone. It would've been impossible to avoid seeing stuff he shouldn't had he had to walk to the site where you all chilled. So if you didnt drive away, this is likely the next best option, although I can understand how worried you were with him being by himself.

But at this point theres no reason to still feel bad over this incident. We are human and all did stuff that we regret, in chinuch and otherwise, but regret is only good for learning what we would do in such a situation next time and then it's time to move on. In this case you know to avoid this place in summer months and at this point theres no reason to beat yourself up over this more than you already did. I totally get you though because I also struggle with this too, oftentimes thinking I should've done this or that and I have to consciously get myself out of that frame of mind...If we cant change things what's the point of obsessing about it?

With such a sensitive mother like you who genuinely cares about your son's yirah shomayim, I believe you will see much Yiddish nachos from your son.


To me it seemed like the opposite. The mother was concerned about him being in the parking lot with the pritzus. Once inside things were more spread out.
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CiCi




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 22 2020, 11:25 am
amother [ Red ] wrote:
To me it seemed like the opposite. The mother was concerned about him being in the parking lot with the pritzus. Once inside things were more spread out.


Yes, it could be that was case.

But I personally have never seen people, Jews or non-Jews, traveling to parks or amusement places and staying in the parking lot so I'm going with what I've experienced my entire life of people not traveling to places to stay in parking lots and assume that pritzusdige women were all over the place and her son wanted to avoid mingling with such a crowd. If it would be in an inner city, drug dealing kind of environment I could see people doing "business" in the parking lot, but it was a tourist attraction kind of place, then generally people dont hang out next to cars..

But of course, it's only my assumption that that was the case.
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